Berger Bullet Failure at Short Range

cjl2010

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Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
559
Location
Payson Arizona
By “you guys” I am referring to SOME of the Berger guys who make excuses for Berger failures.

Antagonizing people by my posts? You gave a thin skin my friend. This is a public forum where people share ideas and hear different opinions.

Have a merry Christmas
Thin skin, You bet chief. I don’t want to make anymore “attacks” on you. Have a good one.
 

WildRose

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Feb 3, 2011
Messages
12,075
Location
N. Texas and S. Africa
Almost a decade old thread...
You are obnoxious.
I could care less either way what bullet anybody uses but guys spend their time documenting what works for them and pictures and all you continually do is talk trash and try to get people red faced and add your little smileys to the end. Gets old.

If you consider that a personal attack then I apologize.
Who is “you guys”? I haven’t blamed anyone for anything. But I do like reading productive material from guys that are out there documenting what works and what doesn’t. Antagonizing guys that are doing this seems to be counter productive to me.

if you don’t like bergers then don’t shoot them.
Thin skin, You bet chief. I don’t want to make anymore “attacks” on you. Have a good one.
Pot meet kennel, have this discussion with the guy in your mirror.

We learn by reading both positive and negative reports from people. If it bothers you, you are free to skip the posts or threads.

If you want to shoot target bullets at game and live with the results that's your choice but you're in no position to talk down to those who share their negative experiences with your bullet of choice.
 

chickm1

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Jun 13, 2012
Messages
198
Location
Texas, by God
Pot meet kennel, have this discussion with the guy in your mirror.

We learn by reading both positive and negative reports from people. If it bothers you, you are free to skip the posts or threads.

If you want to shoot target bullets at game and live with the results that's your choice but you're in no position to talk down to those who share their negative experiences with your bullet of choice.
Wild Rose, You hit the nail on the head. I was told that these were target contour bullets built for hunting. So, I tried them. They cost the snot out of me, and I did cut my group size down about a 1/4" (which is not a lot). I shot 5 animals and of the 5, the bullet failed on 2, and I have provided the picture to show it. OK, maybe I was the unlucky one, but these forums are for people to share information on the hobbies they like, not argue and belittle each other. Thanks for your post!
 

Greyfox

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Jan 21, 2008
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5,527
Location
Northeast
We shot a few deer with the 210 Bergers out of a 300WBY and on deer under 350yrds they would not open unless they hit bone. We are trying the 185's to see if they are more reliable. In my 270 WSM they performed flawlessly under 350 yrd with or without hitting bone, so I have no hesitation in that cal.
The high shoulder shot can fail also, if the bullet goes under the spine but does not hit the dorsal vein it can get past the lungs without to much damage unless the bullet blows up and frags bone and bullet into them, I have had that happen a couple times with controlled expansion hunting bullets. I also found that a shoulder hit will generally result in very limited front leg function and hitting both they do a nose stand but can not run.
Good effort on trying to retrieve the game, sorry do hear you didn't find it.
I have had similar experiences using the Berger 210 HVLD’s in my 300WM at 2890FPS on deer from 200-650 yards. While they were all recovered, they looked like they were shot with a target arrow. Being familiar with the Berger’s, I had made sure the tips were open...no dice. While the Berger 215 gets excellent reports, and my rifle shot them very well, I just ended up using the 200 Hornady ELD-X which worked quite well over the ranges I shoot medium game (200-1000 yards). On the other hand, using Berger 140 HVLD’s in my 6.5x284, dozens of animals have been shot from 150-1000 yards with expansion and very quick kills. I have come to the conclusion that regardless of whether the nomenclature is “hunting” or “target’, the Berger’s, as well as other target style bullets need to be well tested for the hunters particular rifle/application.
 

chickm1

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Jun 13, 2012
Messages
198
Location
Texas, by God
I have had similar experiences using the Berger 210 HVLD’s in my 300WM at 2890FPS on deer from 200-650 yards. While they were all recovered, they looked like they were shot with a target arrow. Being familiar with the Berger’s, I had made sure the tips were open...no dice. While the Berger 215 gets excellent reports, and my rifle shot them very well, I just ended up using the 200 Hornady ELD-X which worked quite well over the ranges I shoot medium game (200-1000 yards). On the other hand, using Berger 140 HVLD’s in my 6.5x284, dozens of animals have been shot from 150-1000 yards with expansion and very quick kills. I have come to the conclusion that regardless of whether the nomenclature is “hunting” or “target’, the Berger’s, as well as other target style bullets need to be well tested for the hunters particular rifle/application.
Well, how do you test them, other than to shoot game? I tested the accuracy and found that to be great. Not many people have access to ballistic gelatin. I should have did a google search on Berger Bullet performance and failures, prior to buying the darn things.
 

Greyfox

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Jan 21, 2008
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Location
Northeast
Well, how do you test them, other than to shoot game? I tested the accuracy and found that to be great. Not many people have access to ballistic gelatin. I should have did a google search on Berger Bullet performance and failures, prior to buying the darn things.
Yes, you are right! I try to gather as much specific info from credible sources as possible, noting distance, game, and placement. If that checks out, I will the try them out as was the case with the Berger 210’s. It didn’t play out...this comes with the territory. Just make sure to place the bullet so it kills, with or without expansion. IMO, actual testing in game is the final judge for me. When I find a good bulletin, Im very reluctant to change....particularly for an extra 100-200 yards of ballistic/energy performance.
 

KurtB

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Feb 11, 2004
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528
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Colorado


140 6.5 vld, 2,660 fps muzzle velocity. Hit bull at 400 yards in thickest part of shoulder bone. Shattered it, traveled through lungs and found under offside hide. Dead in 20 yards.

Year before 350-375 pound, 18 yr old bear. 440 yards. Shot hit shoulder, traveled into chest. Instantly dead and rolling down hill. Same bullet, same rifle.

I literally have dozens of examples of 140 VLD Bergers crushing game near and far. I do not shoot them faster than 2950 fps and impact velocity goal is 2000 fps or better.

Kind of wanting to try the 135 Berger Classic in the 6.5x47 lapuas and 6.5-284 is getting the 156 EOL to try. If they ever failed me, I'd go back to using Lapua Scenars or 140 vld bergers.
 

chickm1

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Jun 13, 2012
Messages
198
Location
Texas, by God


140 6.5 vld, 2,660 fps muzzle velocity. Hit bull at 400 yards in thickest part of shoulder bone. Shattered it, traveled through lungs and found under offside hide. Dead in 20 yards.

Year before 350-375 pound, 18 yr old bear. 440 yards. Shot hit shoulder, traveled into chest. Instantly dead and rolling down hill. Same bullet, same rifle.

I literally have dozens of examples of 140 VLD Bergers crushing game near and far. I do not shoot them faster than 2950 fps and impact velocity goal is 2000 fps or better.

Kind of wanting to try the 135 Berger Classic in the 6.5x47 lapuas and 6.5-284 is getting the 156 EOL to try. If they ever failed me, I'd go back to using Lapua Scenars or 140 vld bergers.
Too bad that Berger VLD Hunting bullets do not do that in every caliber bullet, on every shot. I notice that the people who have had good luck with them, are shooting 6.5 caliber bullets. I wonder what is up with that?
 

BEEMAN

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Oct 20, 2011
Messages
1,392
The 6.5 Berger 130 hunting has been great out of my 6.5x47 at 2950 FPS. Only used it on deer. Shots ranged from 50 to 500+ yds.
 

cjl2010

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Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
559
Location
Payson Arizona
Pot meet kennel, have this discussion with the guy in your mirror.

We learn by reading both positive and negative reports from people. If it bothers you, you are free to skip the posts or threads.

If you want to shoot target bullets at game and live with the results that's your choice but you're in no position to talk down to those who share their negative experiences with your bullet of choice.
Haha nice. I mentioned it’s a decade old thread so if the original posters he is quoting doesn’t respond, it would more than likely be because it’s a necrothread. The very reason I said anything to ingwe is because every Berger thread he tries to provoke people who use Berger bullets and the same people that are trying to educate the best practices when using bergers on game he intentionally tries to muddy things up, which makes Them not want to share anymore info.

You and your pal seem convinced that I’m a target bullet only kind of guy. I kill animals with both target and hunting bullets. I’m actually more interested in switching to all hunting bullets which is why I enjoy the Berger threads because there is a lot to learn from the guys up north who get to knock down a bunch of animals.

I’ll carry on my way with a pot and a kettle and a mirror to eat my game meat that may or may not be killed with target Bullets.

merry Christmas to all, including you hunting bullet users.
 

WildRose

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Feb 3, 2011
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Location
N. Texas and S. Africa
View attachment 164613

The buck had a rise in the land between me and him, and dropped his head down to eat. I was prone and could not see the bottom of his chest or neck. I was waiting for him to raise his head, when he took a step into the woods, hiding his shoulders and anything but a lung shot. I took it. You can see the white spot that is the exit wound. This picture is about 6 1/2 weeks after I shot him. In this picture, you can see how poor he is from recovery. I estimate he has lost 30-40 lbs, since I shot him. He was the biggest buck I ever sighted on, and was 200lbs or better, which is as large as East Texas deer get.
I feel for you, I shot the same freak of a 10pt with forked, symetrical brow tines twice in the same season about 7 weeks elapsing between the two.

Fortunately the 2nd time around put him down permanently.

First shot just grazed him penetrating maybe just through the skin above and behind his shoulders.

On examining him it had healed up well but still looked a lot like a rope or wire burn.
 

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