Berger 215 Hybrid ---- H1000

Alaska2006

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
470
Location
Fairbanks, Juneau, Denali
About to pull my hair out!!!!
New custom 300WM 26" Brux, Defiance Action, McM A3-5 Night Force NX

Started load development at 77.0/H1000 and worked up to 79.0/ H1000
All using Norma cases trimmed to 2.625 all using Fed mag rifle 215 primes all using Berger 215 hybrid target.

Ive ranged seating depth from .010 jump to .040 jump. using Lab Radar for MV, ES & SD. every load is weighed using Lyman Gen 5

I cannot get repeatable results. while I've thought i had a winning load twice I was unable to repeat the groups or SD.

yup, its bedded, and I have checked action screw torque, scope and mount torque. I'm sure most of the error is the guy behind the scope but I've produced .320 5 shot groups with this rifle and load only to not be able to repeat that success the following day with little change to environment.

What am I doing wrong????
 

Barrelnut

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
4,648
Location
End of the Oregon Trail
Try a different bullet. Being in Juneau, I'm guessing that you are shooting below 1500 feet elevation?

I run the 210 VLD in a 300 RUM with .25~.33 MOA accuracy at 100 yards, with lots of groups in the .1 area. I use H1000 and F215M. I wasted a lot of time, powder, and primers trying to get 215 Hybrids to shoot that good. Best I could get consistently was .75 MOA. I shoot the 210 VLD now and never looked back. Then Berger comes out with some new twist recommendations earlier this year... They are recommending 9 twist for the 215 Hybrid now. That explained my problems and frustration. Now a bunch of 215 fans are about to jump on here with lots of praise for the 215 and how it is the best thing since sliced bread, but, IMHO, most of them will be shooting above 1500 Ft.

Short story, try another bullet.

Sorry, just noticed that your are from the town of Anywhere, Alaska. If Anywhere is below 1500 Ft. try another bullet...
 

Alaska2006

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
470
Location
Fairbanks, Juneau, Denali
I have some 210VLDs on the bench as we speak. Have not tried them yet.
I'm puzzled that I cannot get repeatable performance.

I recently relocated to Elko NV so no longer in Gods country (AK)
I was surprised how much each of my rifles changed POI and performance moving from Fairbanks at 500' and average summer temp of 72 to the 5100' elevation and 90+ temps of Elko.
 

Barrelnut

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
4,648
Location
End of the Oregon Trail
Oh. Could just be the heat then. I have a hard time in Oregon with temps in the 90s. Barrels heat fast, I heat fast. Even with some temp stable powders things just seem squirrely and I get day to day inconsistencies.
 

NW Hunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
576
Location
Vancouver, WA
I too have had great success with the 210 HVLD's in my 300 with H1000.
I found two seating depths that shoot in the 2's, .020" and .070" off the lands CBTO.

My secret ingredient for my loads is using CCI br2 large rifle primers.
H1000 is easy to light and the br2's give consistent velocities for me.
77.3 grains gives me 2965 fps with a 24" barrel.

You might check your barrel to stock clearance AFTER EACH SHOT when shooting during hot temperature days. It might surprise you when your barrel really heats up.
 

Alaska2006

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
470
Location
Fairbanks, Juneau, Denali
Thanks NW Hunter,
I will check barrel to stock, great thought and I've not considered that. It is free floated but for sure could be some hot stops on these warm days and a little barrel heat added.
 

BEEMAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
1,792
Your rifle is very similar other than mine is built off a Borden action. I guess either myself and a friend were really lucky or both our guns like the 215. My gun was finished first so we did load development. Started way to low on powder but I was done load development in 15 shots. Friend gets his gun from the same smith and starts a bit lower than where I finished and is done in around 9 shots. Where I shoot is right around 1400-1500 ft. As mentioned earlier I guess I am one of the guys who praise the 215 Berger. Every gun we try it in JUST WORKS! From full custom long throat 300 WM to semi custom 300 RUM and factory 300 WM; all have been just a breeze to get to shoot. Typically we find that 15-30 thou off is the sweet spot. However my RUM throat is so eroded that when I started at 15 off I am now 70 off and still shoots almost as good as when I first started. I suggest you keep trying the 215. I have never seen a gun that didn't like them. Again maybe I am lucky.
 

IdahoCTD

Official LRH Sponsor
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,916
Location
Boise, ID
I'm pretty sure the trim length of a 300wm should be 2.61" as spec on the chamber is 2.62". I'm doing load development for a 300wm I built for my hunting buddy. His gun likes 77grs of H-1000 and 74grs of R-26 about equally well. Both are lit by CCI 250's in Winchester brass at .020" off. Both loads have shot in the .26-.27" range at 100yds.
 

bigngreen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
8,336
Location
SW Montana
Typically you should start in the 74 grain range and work up, probably have loaded pushing a dozen 300 Wins this year all run 76-77 grains of H1000 under a 215 when finished.
 

BEEMAN

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
1,792
I stopped at 79 gr of H1000. No pressure signs and good velocity. Right at 3000 fps. I used a reamer that BROZ helped spec out for me. Both my gun and a friends were made with this reamer; and both shoot equally well. Couldn't be happier with the way they turned out.
 

Broz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
8,636
Location
Townsend, Montana.
Typically you should start in the 74 grain range and work up, probably have loaded pushing a dozen 300 Wins this year all run 76-77 grains of H1000 under a 215 when finished.

Add in the 2 dozen or so I have dialed in too with this load. I may even go as far out on the limb to say, If it doesn't shoot this load, look elsewhere for the problem, especially if it has shot some .3 / 5 shot groups with it already.

Jeff
 

Alaska2006

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2015
Messages
470
Location
Fairbanks, Juneau, Denali
Jeff I have modeled this rifle much after the holy grail you shot. Think I've read most posts and comments you've shared on the 300 win.
The rifle has shot some unbelievable groups i just cant repeat them. I was shooting at 100yrds and will not brag because I cannot repeat the results. But this rifle shot 5 into one ragged hole, easily covered with a 300 win case head. I was sure we we're headed for the big times. That was the 4th group of load development 77.5 gr H1000.
I raced to the reloading bench and carefully cranked out 10 more to confirm my success only to be humbled. the range has a way of humbling a man. As I checked and re-checked the rifle and torqued screws I could find nothing. I still had the original cases un molested from the amazing group so I weight and measured each case so I could duplicate. No luck so I wrote off the great group as an accident and moved on with load development. I ran into another sweet group at 78.5 gr H1000. not as good as the previous load but good at .325 ish. Again Ive not been able to repeat that. I had read where perhaps these bullets are not fully stabilized at 100yrds so I started shooting at 200 yrds which is somewhat depressing when looking at groups until you actually do the math. Still they are not what I consider good groups.
the only thing I have changed which I have not changed back is the target. The revelation just hit me last night while sitting that the reloading bench scratching my head. The good groups were shot using a white target with a 1" orange dot. The poor targets are all shot using a brown target with a 2" bull. I'm thinking the bull is too large for me to get a good zero. Does this seem crazy or just an excuse because I cant shoot for crap? The target is really the only thing I have not duplicated right down to weather conditions.
 

IdahoCTD

Official LRH Sponsor
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,916
Location
Boise, ID
Aim small miss small as the saying goes. I like shooting at the smallest dot I see well with the scopes reticle. Generally that is 1" or less at 100yds. That could very well be your problem but there are other variables that are possible. How many reloads on the brass? Has it been weight sorted? annealed? etc.
 

ShtrRdy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
3,901
Location
High Plains
I'm dealing with the same sort of behavior as you have described. I'm going to go back to the 210 VLD with H1000 and see if I can repeat my findings.

My rifle is a Stiller action, Bartlein barrel, bedded in a McMillan A3-5 stock. Barrel finished at 26"
 

Recent Posts

Top