Seems Berger's have serious problems with tips opening, especially at LR speeds. They usually tumble. I watched video of gunwerks killed elk at 900yds. They recovered bullet and it looked like a banana. They said that's how the Berger's usually work and that a tumbling bullet is very deadly??? However in videos the bullet often doesn't tumble until 10" mark or so and that's all most out of a deer size animal! So putting a pencil through one lung and if lucky you get a tumble in second lung...seems like people shouldn't WANT THAT? Look at this video...Tips even at high speed do not open often it just tears tip off and then bullet self-destructs, often showing signs of tumbling with the curved pieces. If it did that every time I guess it would be very deadly, but the times it doesn't is very often in many ballistic gel tests. And every body and there grandma is doing ballistic test now a days.
Berger 156 EOL 6.5 fail?
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I have shot a lot of the berger bullets and have been very happy with the performance on game. I am not a long range hunter per say, I keep buying and building long range rigs because I want to have the ability to take the long shot if no other means of getting closer are available. My longest shot to date is 851 yards with 180 grain hybrid out of my LRM and it performed very well. I think if your going to take long range shots then you need to take the time to make sure your ammunition is in top shelf shape, meaning cleaning all of the tips and checking for deformation before pulling the trigger. A long range shot, IMO, is not a rushed shot, its a well planned out shot that you have taken the time to dot your i's and cross your t's. I think if you shoot enough you are bound to find a bad one. There will always be guys who don't like something that someone else loves. To each his own. If we didn't have a difference of opinion then this forum would be pretty darn boring. The Bergers have worked well for me and I will keep pushing them down the tube. I do really appreciate the video and the information that Barbour Creek provided, the more information you have the better!
I've watched many ballistic gel videos the last few weeks on Berger's. Here's what happens with these bullets...and its not consistent. One of 3 things happen. Bullets open at tip and mushroom losing a lot of weight often 40% like Berger says, this is awesome IMO. Often tip does not open and tip gets torn off and tumbles then bullet starts self-destruction but often many inches into target...not good. Then at 2100 and below often doesn't open at all or just barely tears jacket and tumbles often again many inches into target. One thing that ballistic gel shows is that the tip opening and mushrooming is rare. The tip getting crushed and torn off is the more normal way and fragmenting.
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Interesting, are you saying 25% of the animals he shoots escape or that you lose 25% of the meat from the animals he kills?
Sub 30-30 velocities and expecting some miraculous consistent expansion........priceless.
Couple things come to mind...
Right tool for the job.
Bigger hammer.
There are many bullets that perform much better than Berger's @ sub 30-30 velocities. ABLR is very consistent, Partitions, and even Hornady ELDm and x's they may lose a lot of weight but they perform very consistent with bullet opening and mushrooming within first 1.5'' to 2" so hitting 1st lung with lots of energy and even if it mushrooms to point of cup and core separation its dumped a lot of energy and damage by that time. Often the Berger's you are having to rely on a tumbling bullet to kill so a lot of the bullet path is a pencil hole until that tumble, is that at 5", 8" or out of animal?
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RockyMtnUT
Well-Known Member
175 LRAB
RockyMtnUT
Well-Known Member
Very true but some seem to produce failure patterns more than others
Why wouldn't we want to weed out these?
Kinda like CA arms
... or does it just seem like its more, because of the number of people using them and those people being vocal on forums?
Perception colors this issue to the point where it's almost impossible to have a fact-based discussion about it.
TX Badger
Well-Known Member
I sure wish they would include the twist rates in their data. If we are talking about lower velocities and slower twists, the bullet may be close to tumbling through the air let a alone an animal.
RockyMtnUT
Well-Known Member
Seriously?
Try the automotive industry,snowmobiling industry etc. There are known models were produced that were failures.
Let's not sugar coat this because we are invested or we are the ones that bought a 2011 Polaris or a particular "model".
Yes, more qtys sold are going to produce more opportunity for complaints. But generally patterns are produced and I like to weed bad ones out. Kinda like something the industry calls a recall.
Why wouldn't we want that?
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When checking the hollow point what specifically are you looking for?
Do you have picture to share maybe?
Seriously,
Try the automotive industry,snowmobiling industry etc. there are know models that produce or were produced that were failures
Let's not sugar coat this because we are invested or bought a 2011 Polaris or a particular "model".
Yes more qtys sold are going to produce more opportunity for complaints. But generally patterns are produced and I like to weed bad ones out.
Why wouldn't we want that?
Ok, so I guess my decade and half of shooting bergers on big game with amazing success (100%, including the 156EOL) is just a figment of my imagination because some people on the internet say so.
