Belt or No belt

[Otto6555]

So I'm a avid reloader and hunter who is looking at a Elk hunt next year in the fall.I've killed pretty everything the Southern States has to offer except a Alligator which I have no desire to pursue.My Question is how much of a magnum caliber is needed to effectively and efficiently kill a Bull Elk at 400 meters and back to me.I'm confident in my abilities to be accurate at 400 but wouldn't risk a 500 meter shot just because I "think" I can.The guys I been talking with all say one of 2 calibers always starts the discussion of a
7mm Rem mag or 300 win mag which I have neither but I do have a
Well made and plenty accurate Interams imported 375 H&H Magnum in a Mauser action.So I can use some lighter bullets to make a longer shot but the gun and 10 rounds weigh almost 11 pounds with scope and I'm not sure I would or could carry that all day strapped across my back.So what would y'all recommend in my situation

 

[QuietTexan]

What you have is fine. If you want something new buy whatever you want. I chose 300 PRC and 7 PRC because I have no desire to own a 300WM or a 7RM. 400 yards isn't very far - there are plenty of 6.5mm rounds that could do it, 7mm and 30 cal non-magnums, etc. A 280AI or 30-06 would do it. Some people have (gasp) used the 6.5CM on elk that close, but admittedly I'd prefer at least a 6.5 PRC or bigger with the smaller bullet.

Weatherby makes a nice ultra-light rifle in their calibers plus 280AI if you want something lighter:

Mark V® Backcountry 2.0 Ti - Weatherby, Inc.

Starting at just 4.7 lbs the Mark V® Backcountry™ Ti was purpose-built to be the best lightweight mountain rifle on the market. It features Peak 44’s Blacktooth carbon fiber stock which weighs only 19oz making it one of the lightest production stocks on the market. Equipped with an Accubreak and...

weatherby.com

Belts are a pointless vestigial remnant of the 375 H&H, and offer nothing. Absolutely not a single thing. They are utterly and completely useless on the 300WM or the 7RM. A need for positive headspacing off the belt is a myth for anything with less case taper than the original and shoulders steeper that 15*, aka every case other than the 375 H&H. If a belt was required for safe operation then 30-06 would need it with it's body taper and shoulder angle, yet the 30-06 has never needed a belt because it was never loaded in British double rifles in Africa where a case could be over-inserted.

Let the garbage posting ensue about how "I cun hanloahd muh thee-hunerd-Winnie to be faster dan dat darn whippur snappuhr PRC" blah blah blah. I can load a 30-06 to the point it puts factory 300WM in a wheelchair, and that doesn't prove a thing. Over-pressuring cases to chase velocity goals is dumb in general, and double dumb to use to try as justification for hating something new and/or different.

(Fudds screech in old man rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)

 

[entoptics]

Any appropriate 7mm or 30 cal bullet at ≥3000 ftlbs of muzzle energy will smoke an elk at 400 yards.

@QuietTexan is pretty much spot on regarding the belt. The belt adds nothing, and does subtract some case capacity.

That said, if you're a reloader, getting 7PRC, 280 AI, or 300 PRC brass is SUBSTANTIALLY more challenging and spendy than getting 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win, unless you are set on getting Peterson/ADG, in which case it's a wash.

Also, there are far more rifle options and factory ammo available for the venerable old belted mags than the new 7 and 300 PRC's or 280 AI

With a good bullet and shot placement, there is no discernible difference in 400 yard elk stomping performance between the 7 Rem Mag, 7 PRC, 300 Win Mag, or 300 PRC in my opinion.

FWIW, as a hand loader and semi-custom rifle "tinkerer", my next gun will almost certainly be a 7 PRC, as it's objectively better than the 7 Rem Mag if factory rifle/ammo availability is not a concern.

 

[Otto6555]

What you have is fine. If you want something new buy whatever you want. I chose 300 PRC and 7 PRC because I have no desire to own a 300WM or a 7RM. 400 yards isn't very far - there are plenty of 6.5mm rounds that could do it, 7mm and 30 cal non-magnums, etc. A 280AI or 30-06 would do it. Some people have (gasp) used the 6.5CM on elk that close, but admittedly I'd prefer at least a 6.5 PRC or bigger with the smaller bullet.

Weatherby makes a nice ultra-light rifle in their calibers plus 280AI if you want something lighter:

Mark V® Backcountry 2.0 Ti - Weatherby, Inc.

Starting at just 4.7 lbs the Mark V® Backcountry™ Ti was purpose-built to be the best lightweight mountain rifle on the market. It features Peak 44’s Blacktooth carbon fiber stock which weighs only 19oz making it one of the lightest production stocks on the market. Equipped with an Accubreak and...

weatherby.com

Belts are a pointless vestigial remnant of the 375 H&H, and offer nothing. Absolutely not a single thing. They are utterly and completely useless on the 300WM or the 7RM. A need for positive headspacing off the belt is a myth for anything with less case taper than the original and shoulders steeper that 15*, aka every case other than the 375 H&H. If a belt was required for safe operation then 30-06 would need it with it's body taper and shoulder angle, yet the 30-06 has never needed a belt because it was never loaded in British double rifles in Africa where a case could be over-inserted.

Let the garbage posting ensue about how "I cun hanloahd muh thee-hunerd-Winnie to be faster dan dat darn whippur snappuhr PRC" blah blah blah. I can load a 30-06 to the point it puts factory 300WM in a wheelchair, and that doesn't prove a thing. Over-pressuring cases to chase velocity goals is dumb in general, and double dumb to use to try as justification for hating something new and/or different.

(Fudds screech in old man rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)

Thanks that's really good advice

 

[Otto6555]

Any appropriate 7mm or 30 cal bullet at ≥3000 ftlbs of muzzle energy will smoke an elk at 400 yards.

@QuietTexan is pretty much spot on regarding the belt. The belt adds nothing, and does subtract some case capacity.

That said, if you're a reloader, getting 7PRC, 280 AI, or 300 PRC brass is SUBSTANTIALLY more challenging and spendy than getting 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win, unless you are set on getting Peterson/ADG, in which case it's a wash.

Also, there are far more rifle options and factory ammo available for the venerable old belted mags than the new 7 and 300 PRC's or 280 AI

With a good bullet and shot placement, there is no discernible difference in 400 yard elk stomping performance between the 7 Rem Mag, 7 PRC, 300 Win Mag, or 300 PRC in my opinion.

FWIW, as a hand loader and semi-custom rifle "tinkerer", my next gun will almost certainly be a 7 PRC, as it's objectively better than the 7 Rem Mag if factory rifle/ammo availability is not a concern.

Thanks that's good advice

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Get what you like and enjoy the result.
Those belted mags have been around a long time and remain enormously popular for a reason.
The Public Relations Cartridges are fine as well, I shoot one of those too.

 

[victor3ranger]

I like belts
Just cause
I'm old and it makes me feel cool

 

[MagnumManiac]

If you want modern, power and finesse substantially higher than a (hype) PRC, get yourself a real man's cartridge and go with a 300RUM. You will never be disappointed.
I am a thru and thru 300WM guy, BUT, when I got my RUM, I just couldn't believe how good it was out of the box, accuracy for such a large powder column is ridiculous. Forget the PRC, it does NOTHING the 300WM has been doing since 1963…

Cheers.

 

[chav0_12]

At 400 yards a 6.5 Creedmoor ( oops: oh no, I said it ) would be plenty. If you have a 30-06, 308, anything of the sort you're fine. You don't need magnums to kill elk. They're more fun and they're cooler but they're not necessary. I personally shoot magnums because I can and want to. Elk aren't some magically bullet-proof animal, they are bigger than deer though. If you want/need an excuse to buy a bigger 7mm/30 cal magnum then you have that too. One of the bigger points to shooting magnums is their reach and retained velocity at longer ranges. I personally don't ever intend on owning another belted magnum. When this 28 Nosler barrel burns out, I'll put a 7mm PRC barrel on it then build a different 28 Nosler. I would at some point like to get a big 30 too, that would be a 30 Nosler or maybe a PRC.

 

[memtb]

So I'm a avid reloader and hunter who is looking at a Elk hunt next year in the fall.I've killed pretty everything the Southern States has to offer except a Alligator which I have no desire to pursue.My Question is how much of a magnum caliber is needed to effectively and efficiently kill a Bull Elk at 400 meters and back to me.I'm confident in my abilities to be accurate at 400 but wouldn't risk a 500 meter shot just because I "think" I can.The guys I been talking with all say one of 2 calibers always starts the discussion of a
7mm Rem mag or 300 win mag which I have neither but I do have a
Well made and plenty accurate Interams imported 375 H&H Magnum in a Mauser action.So I can use some lighter bullets to make a longer shot but the gun and 10 rounds weigh almost 11 pounds with scope and I'm not sure I would or could carry that all day strapped across my back.So what would y'all recommend in my situation

Your .375 is fine, but as you surmise, it's darn heavy to hunt with all day for days on end……been there done that! I built a lighter .375 AI for my hunts…..but, that not the subject here!

A magnum is not needed….unless you intend to stretch your shots "way" out there!

As boring as it may be……a 30-06 with good bullets will serve you quite well for the majority of elk hunting that you may find yourself doing! memtb

 

[cajun]

If you want modern, power and finesse substantially higher than a (hype) PRC, get yourself a real man's cartridge and go with a 300RUM. You will never be disappointed.
I am a thru and thru 300WM guy, BUT, when I got my RUM, I just couldn't believe how good it was out of the box, accuracy for such a large powder column is ridiculous. Forget the PRC, it does NOTHING the 300WM has been doing since 1963…

Cheers.

The 300 prc will out run a 300 wm and get **** close to rum velocities with less powder. Not to mention the availability of factory ammo.

 

[Otto6555]

Your .375 is fine, but as you surmise, it's darn heavy to hunt with all day for days on end……been there done that! I built a lighter .375 AI for my hunts…..but, that not the subject here!

A magnum is not needed….unless you intend to stretch your shots "way" out there!

As boring as it may be……a 30-06 with good bullets will serve you quite well for the majority of elk hunting that you may find yourself doing! memtb

Thanks that's what I starting to see

 

[MagnumManiac]

So I can use some lighter bullets to make a longer shot but the gun and 10 rounds weigh almost 11 pounds with scope

My custom Win Model 70 in 375 Weatherby weighs about 10.5lbs, HS-Precision Sporter stock, 2-7x33 scope and sling loaded with 4 rounds…gets tedious at the 3 hour mark carrying it on a shoulder…
My SPS in 300RUM only weighs a whisker over 8lbs loaded, scoped and sling…much easier walking with that one, recoil is a muzzle flip into next week, but hey, who notices when shooting at game?!

Cheers.

 

[Wolf76]

The thing about elk is sometimes shots are longer and I'd recommend you be proficient to at least 500.
7mm or 300wm?
300 has a great reputation for its terminal effects on elk. 215 berger h1000 are proven winners.