Be Careful with RL 22

[Greg Duerr]

How much difference can you have from Lot of powder to Lot of powder? I have some RL 22 that Maxed out in my .243 AI at 45gr and still that might be to hot. Im shooting the Berger 105 I was told my another experienced shooter that his .243 AI and the 105 berger Maxes out at 49.0 and another shooting the same bullet his rifle maxes out at 48.1
I read on Long Range Hunting that 5 years ago RL 22 was recalled because of a huge difference between lots. All I can say is that when changing lots of RL 22 back off at least 10% to stay alive.....................

G

 

[lightflight]

Chambers, throats, brass, and primers are NOT created equal.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I had this same thing happen with H1000... That's why I no longer use it, except for light loads for fire-forming for my Ackleys. That's also the only use i have for Alliant powders, as well...With the exception of my old Ruger 77 MKII 7mmRM. It really likes RL19 for some reason.

 

[MagnumManiac]

How much difference can you have from Lot of powder to Lot of powder? I have some RL 22 that Maxed out in my .243 AI at 45gr and still that might be to hot. Im shooting the Berger 105 I was told my another experienced shooter that his .243 AI and the 105 berger Maxes out at 49.0 and another shooting the same bullet his rifle maxes out at 48.1
I read on Long Range Hunting that 5 years ago RL 22 was recalled because of a huge difference between lots. All I can say is that when changing lots of RL 22 back off at least 10% to stay alive.....................

G

I would suggest it has nothing to do with powder lots.
Your chamber, throat or even bore diameter may differ, it is not unusual to have 2 identical looking rifles from the SAME MANUFACTURER digest completely different loads and PRODUCE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VELOCITY WITH THE SAME LOADS.
Handloading/reloading rifle cartridges is an INEXACT science, which is WHY we have to work from a starting load, not from what someone else says worked in THEIR RIFLE.
How does the velocity compare between your loads and the other guys loads?
If your velocities are the same, then your pressure is the same, if it's lower, then your pressure is lower and if it's higher then your pressure is PROBABLY HIGHER.
You also must realise that powder burn rates ARE NOT CONSTANT, even in the same cartridge, throat length and bore diameter can all change start pressure and max pressure, which in turn if higher create even higher pressure. Heat and pressure rise non linearly in rifle chambers and barrels in comparison to velocity.

Cheers.
gun).

 

[Greg Duerr]

The Smith that built the rifle does test loads before shipping them out and sends you a five shot target. His lot of RL 22 Maxed out in my rifle at 49.0gr The lot of powder that I have maxes out at 44.5 grains. The 45gr load I mentioned the pockets were slightly blown................This is way to much of a difference between his lot of RL 22 and Mine in the same Rifle
Almost 5 gr difference. Im with Mudrunner Alliant is doing something terribly wrong here There is no way that one lot to another it should change that much.....

 

[deadidarren]

and this is why powder has a batch no

 

[Greg Duerr]

Sure but for one batch of RL 22 that Maxes out at 49.0 to another batch that maxes out at 43.0 Give me a break all this in the same rifle......................

This is just an example of POOR quality control from Alliant................

 

[MagnumManiac]

As has been stated loads differ between rifles.
Are you using the same brass as your gunsmith?
Are you seating the bullets to EXACTLY the same length?
Do you have the same neck tension as your smith?
As I noted after re-reading your post, you state that with the lower charge you are getting the SAME velocity as your smith, but with less powder. Something in your loading parameters is different, not necessarily the powder lot, OAL can change pressure, and therefore velocity with only minimal differences.
If your smith didn't provide any info other the powder charge, how do you know what your loads are going to do?
I have both a 22-250AI and a 257AI, I use the powders that give the 3-5 top velocities in the parent case and use their max loads as my starting loads. Powders that are slightly too slow for a particular bore size often show errattic pressures and velocities, the 243 is notorious for pressure excursions, proceed carefully!

There are so many variables that have zero to do with powder lots, that it sounds like you need to do a little more research.
Another point, RE22 is on the too slow side for the 243 bore, you'd be better off with H4350/IMR4350, it will give higher velocities.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[BountyHunter]

I would suggest it has nothing to do with powder lots.
Your chamber, throat or even bore diameter may differ, it is not unusual to have 2 identical looking rifles from the SAME MANUFACTURER digest completely different loads and PRODUCE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VELOCITY WITH THE SAME LOADS.
Handloading/reloading rifle cartridges is an INEXACT science, which is WHY we have to work from a starting load, not from what someone else says worked in THEIR RIFLE.
How does the velocity compare between your loads and the other guys loads?
If your velocities are the same, then your pressure is the same, if it's lower, then your pressure is lower and if it's higher then your pressure is PROBABLY HIGHER.
You also must realise that powder burn rates ARE NOT CONSTANT, even in the same cartridge, throat length and bore diameter can all change start pressure and max pressure, which in turn if higher create even higher pressure. Heat and pressure rise non linearly in rifle chambers and barrels in comparison to velocity.

Cheers.
gun).

Trust me it had everything to do with the lot!!!!! Same gun same throat and had to drop 4.5 grains. Blew 3 triggers in 2 day in competition and they did recall the lot!

 

[Barrelnut]

Spoke with an engineer from IMR one time. He told me that the batch to batch maximum they allow is 3%. He also said that it is usually just 1.5% in batch to batch testing. If it is more than 3% percent they rework before the batch is produced. He almost made it sound like an industry standard.

The batch of RL22 in this case is more like 12%. Thats a lot.

 

[FearNoWind]

Seems to me that if you're getting the desired MV and accuracy results using less powder all you need to do is load to the known values. If you use less powder to achieve the same result ... sounds good to me.
Everything I've ever read about testing new loads says "start low and work up". So don't start where your smith ended up. Start lower, work up. When you've reached the reasonable powder charge for the load you're building, load without pushing the envelope, just shoot and enjoy.

 

[Mikecr]

I get the impression that Greg did all the right things here, and it's a great reminder for us all.
Anymore I work up loads with powder that I'm confident I can get enough of (by lot#) for 1-2 barrel lives. And I test each jug at reduced charge even while same lot#. Basically, I don't even trust same lot#s anymore..
FearNoWind, any changes to your tuned load are bad & large changes are even worse. Target MV with way less powder could mean less fill density, and then likely a completely different tune -that might not be good. It could be a game changer for someone who has already put a lot of work/expense into their load.

 

[mtwarych]

Sir,
I have been following this thread and reading the answers.
I was wondering if you have verified your powder scale to ensure proper weight?
This could be a possibility to confirm.

 

[Greg Duerr]

Yes, I checked and rechecked my powder scale it was dead on. I even verified my loads with a Digital scale that I verified to be dead on.
The Smith told me that his brother who shoots a .243 AI, his lot of RL22 Maxed out at 48.2grs. Now I'm assuming that when someone tells me that a load is Maxed out that they are not blowing the Primer pockets but that this is the Max powder charge before they get into some Hot loads.
I did start out Friday shooting 40gr of RL 22 with the 105 Berger .........My seating depth was the same as the Smith however he used Winchester Brass and I used Lapua. The Berger Manual shows 43.9gr as the top end load for a .243. I started with 40gr. in the Ackley cases. I did get one group that went .546 I did not Chronograph theses load. At 44.0gr in the Ackley cases I was getting high enough pressure that the pockets were enlarged enough that the cases were ruined. I was getting groups that went from 1" to the stated .546
As mentioned before I did Chronograph one load at 46.5 and was getting 3370FPS.............way to high, and of course these cases were trashed.
I email the Smith and he had never heard of RL 22 acting this way.
I think that its easy to assume that Alliant could not have let their quality control slip like this ...............other than the case we used everything the same including the same Fed 210 Primers. Most guys would have started out with the Max load for the Parent case ......43.9 Who would guess that in the Ackley case this load would blow your pockets.................
I have some other RL 22 that is a different Lot and loaded up One case starting with 40.0gr increasing by .5 and will run these through a Chronograph and see. I also loaded up each case using RL 25 starting at Bergers Published 243 load of 45gr.........and going up .5 up to 50gr.......................we will see.