Badlands Precision Bullets thread - From BC to terminal ballistics

Hespco

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Mar 6, 2019
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W. Montana
Sounds outstanding to me. " CodyAdams", wish I were there to share your sucess.. Because of all the trees on the place I have two ranges. 108 & 424yds with a big deep canyon between me & the 424 yd target. Would love to have a 200 & 300 yd range , which I do have except I can't use it because of all the trees.
The Badlands bullets appear to be predictable shooters with the right bullet seating depth. Doesn't seem hard to find. Bullet technology continues to evolve.
As a side note I have a batch of the new Hammer " Absolute " 6.5 123 gr ordered. Should receive them by the first part of next week. Trying to decide which of my 6.5's to try them in. 260 Rem , 6.5-06 or 264 mag. Will have to think it over.
 

Bravo 4

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The South
The first picture here is of the old .308 Bulldozer 150gr and the new .308 BD II 150gr. The changes are very slight. A few thousandths out here, a few in there. But it adds up to about a 6% increase in b.c. and better petal retention at high velocity, and lower expansion velocity. Basically an increase in performance in every aspect.

The 2nd picture is of the hollow point in the standard bulldozer bullet.

3rd picture is of the hollow in the new Bulldozer II. Notice how much thinner it is at the mouth of the opening, and how much further out the broaching goes. This creates a very thin wall section for the formation of petals.
Thanks for jumping in the discussion, good to see the innovators on here. One question: when we getting some .375 BD’s? 😳
 

Swamplord

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Alaska
Test completed with fantastic results !

Last day of the 2020 moose season, in the last few hours of daylight I introduced a bull moose to the new Badlands 30 caliber 205 gr Super Bulldozer ll bullet, I tossed it to him at 250 yards and he caught it with two ribs (in & out) and two lungs, on bullet impact he was knocked off his feet as if a D12 powered through him and ran him over, a few kicks and it was all over, extremely satisfied with the results !!

Autopsy pics coming, we packed out half the bull last night and just finished my 3rd cup of coffee at base camp and heading in to retrieve the rest of the moose now ....
4A3FEC38-C8E1-49A9-BDEE-4A28F4778E27.jpeg
 

phorwath

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Congrats and cool! Look forward to the vitals pics/report.

For those that don't often hunt moose, flattening a bull with a chest shot thru the ribs doesn't happen very often. They usually stay on their feet until unconscious from lack of blood & oxygen to brain. Knockdown effect here impressive...
 

codyadams

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Jan 7, 2015
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Location
Southwest Wyoming
Well, I have an update.....

Went out with my good buddy "Wedgy" from the forum on a successful back country elk hunt. First thing in the morning once topping the Mountain, he spotted the large herd of elk, about 2 miles away, so we beat feet down the mountain, then up the mountain to where they were.

They were on a sloping hillside in timber, but directly across the canyon on from them on the ridgeline we had a decent vantage point. After a few hours of glassing through the bulls and waiting for them to stand and give an opportunity, I picked one out. We ranged him at 883, I put in the dope and sent the shot. First round went just high, we figured out later that the wind was doing crazy things in the canyon, including an intense up draft on the far side of the canyon. I was able to spot my impact with my .338 Norma, adjusted, and the bull gave me another shot. At impact, I watched his back legs come up and smack his belly, his rear end dropped, then his front, and he slid about 200 feet down the hill until he got caught up in a tree, I watched him for a little bit, and no movement, I assumed he was done. Impact speed was 2113 fps and 2678 ft-lbs of energy.

We hiked around the back of the canyon and up to him, to find him down, unable to move anything but his legs a little bit, but still alive. I used my anti-bear .44 mag to finish him off. I saw my impact was where the neck meets the shoulder, a little far forward, but I have hit other animals there with devastating outcomes at times, however no vital internal organs were hit. Upon boning him out, I was surprised to find the bullet. The bull was facing to the fight upon impact, strait broadside. It entered center body for elevation, penetrated the entrance side of the neck just outside the thoracic cavity, hit the bottom of the vertebrae, then turned up and to the left, and was found under the back strap against the off side of the spine. Total penetrating was 12", maximum, half the neck, then up and to the left a little. Wound channel was relatively small, but acceptable. Pictures of the bull and bullet below.

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Afterwards once out of the back country, I contacted Jason and George (bullet designer and company owner) to talk about what I observed and report my information. After talking about my rifles twist rate, velocity, and some other details, Jason was surprised at the lack of penetration. I asked him about expansion, and he said that is typical, and that they use the hardest copper available (explains the early pressure generally seen with these bullets). George also seemed surprised, and said that what likely happened is that just clipping the vertebrae, which he said is the densest bone in an animal, likely caused the bullet to turn, and when frontal area increases, the rate at which it looses speed quadruples, so if the surface area was 4x the size, it would slow down 16x's faster, and that is what likely caused it to stop so abruptly and slide along the muscle up to the left. As far as expansion, he said that is what he expects from this hollow point design at those speeds, maybe slightly more, and that it was at one point much larger diameter than that, before the petals folded over and rolled back.

I am somewhat torn. I personally am surprised that the bullet didn't punch through, I wonder if a tighter twist would have helped, or if it is just circumstance. I didn't put the bullet in the vital organs, I was off on my wind call by .75 MOA or so, wind was anywhere from a slight whisp up to 15+ mph at times coming from 7 or 8 o'clock where we were, but was going to the left out in the canyon around 5ish mph judging from mirage, and swiftly up hill over at the elk, and I missed the mark on the wind. I have a hard time making a decision or call on bullet performance if it is not placed properly, and generally dispell any information I get from a kill if I didn't do my job as the shooter, but I also am having a hard time accepting that a 270 grain bullet still going over 2100 fps couldn't even punch through the neck of an elk, even with hitting the spine. On the other hand, the bull dropped and didn't get up, though he was still alive, but again, no organs were hit, and the clipping impact to the vertebrae did not cut the spinal cord.

Pretty much all my big game is done for the season, I will likely have my wife use this rifle for her elk and may get a better idea on a shoulder type hit, but this interesting experience has raised my eyebrows at least. Overall I would like to see a little more bullet expansion at these low velocity impacts (after all, it is obviously a long range bullet, low velocity impacts is where it should shine) and if I rebarrel down the road for these bullets, I will do an 8 or 8.5 twist. However, this is just one elk. I try to be objective, and get a good amount of field data prior to making any assumptions about a bullet. Hopefully my wife gets an opportunity, and we can see what happens there.

On a different note, Wedgy made an awesome 987 yard shot on a calf elk on the third day with his 300 RUM using 227 Hammers, she tumbled down the hill close to mine, and my buddy that came along took his first ever elk, a large cow, at 1002 yards with a perfect heart shot from his .338 Norma Mag using 300 Bergers. It was an amazing hunt, but more on that in another thread.....

Thanks all!!
Resized_20201018_183937.jpeg
 

phorwath

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Thanks for the write up and photos. I too am surprised with only the 12" of penetration. When the petals remain attached at the slower impact velocity, penetration appears much less than when the copper nose is sheared off at higher impact velocities.
 

SoDak338Lap

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Sep 15, 2016
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10
Congrats on the bull! I would agree though, this is about the opposite of what i would expect from these bullets, 12" penetration while retaining most of its mass just doesn't seem possible without it turning or something. I would certainly thing the impact energy of a 308 win at muzzle should push anything that can hold together through an elk..

Very interesting, I hope you can take another elk with it. Thanks for sharing!
 

codyadams

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Southwest Wyoming
Congrats on the bull! I would agree though, this is about the opposite of what i would expect from these bullets, 12" penetration while retaining most of its mass just doesn't seem possible without it turning or something. I would certainly thing the impact energy of a 308 win at muzzle should push anything that can hold together through an elk..

Very interesting, I hope you can take another elk with it. Thanks for sharing!
That was my thought, but if this bullet, made of hard copper, and with a relatively small amount of expansion and weight shedding only went that far, would any other bullet have gone any farther? I think a 300 Berger, 265 ABLR, 285 eld or any other long range lead core bullet with the exact same impact may have only penetrated that much, but would have likely blown up upon hitting the vertebrae, which would have had the same end result, possibly done more damage to the spinal cord with fragments, but maybe not.

The neck is more meat than a bullet typically encounters with a shoulder or rib impact, and about as much muscle as a bullet will ever need to go through, aside from possibly a hind quarter shot. My only thought is that, with the 9 twist, the bullet was possibly just barely stable, and clipping the vertebrae, as George said, was just enough to cause it to turn sideways, and in doing so, loosing stability. If I had an 8.5 or 8 twist, the outcome may have been strait penetration on through. The new designed hollow point they are making will expand more, due to the thinner nose, so hopefully that will be effective, but I think a tighter twist could do these bullets well too.
 

SoDak338Lap

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That was my thought, but if this bullet, made of hard copper, and with a relatively small amount of expansion and weight shedding only went that far, would any other bullet have gone any farther? I think a 300 Berger, 265 ABLR, 285 eld or any other long range lead core bullet with the exact same impact may have only penetrated that much, but would have likely blown up upon hitting the vertebrae, which would have had the same end result, possibly done more damage to the spinal cord with fragments, but maybe not.

The neck is more meat than a bullet typically encounters with a shoulder or rib impact, and about as much muscle as a bullet will ever need to go through, aside from possibly a hind quarter shot. My only thought is that, with the 9 twist, the bullet was possibly just barely stable, and clipping the vertebrae, as George said, was just enough to cause it to turn sideways, and in doing so, loosing stability. If I had an 8.5 or 8 twist, the outcome may have been strait penetration on through. The new designed hollow point they are making will expand more, due to the thinner nose, so hopefully that will be effective, but I think a tighter twist could do these bullets well too.
Yeah I think that is the most logical explanation, an unfortunate series of events that lead to less than desirable performance. Hopefully your wife can manage to smack another elk with them, so we can get a more conclusive answer. lol

And so these are the older rev SBD still? I couldn't remember if Jason was getting you the newer ones or not.
 

David Emerson

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Jan 1, 2020
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Drayton,ND
Well, I have an update.....

Went out with my good buddy "Wedgy" from the forum on a successful back country elk hunt. First thing in the morning once topping the Mountain, he spotted the large herd of elk, about 2 miles away, so we beat feet down the mountain, then up the mountain to where they were.

They were on a sloping hillside in timber, but directly across the canyon on from them on the ridgeline we had a decent vantage point. After a few hours of glassing through the bulls and waiting for them to stand and give an opportunity, I picked one out. We ranged him at 883, I put in the dope and sent the shot. First round went just high, we figured out later that the wind was doing crazy things in the canyon, including an intense up draft on the far side of the canyon. I was able to spot my impact with my .338 Norma, adjusted, and the bull gave me another shot. At impact, I watched his back legs come up and smack his belly, his rear end dropped, then his front, and he slid about 200 feet down the hill until he got caught up in a tree, I watched him for a little bit, and no movement, I assumed he was done. Impact speed was 2113 fps and 2678 ft-lbs of energy.

We hiked around the back of the canyon and up to him, to find him down, unable to move anything but his legs a little bit, but still alive. I used my anti-bear .44 mag to finish him off. I saw my impact was where the neck meets the shoulder, a little far forward, but I have hit other animals there with devastating outcomes at times, however no vital internal organs were hit. Upon boning him out, I was surprised to find the bullet. The bull was facing to the fight upon impact, strait broadside. It entered center body for elevation, penetrated the entrance side of the neck just outside the thoracic cavity, hit the bottom of the vertebrae, then turned up and to the left, and was found under the back strap against the off side of the spine. Total penetrating was 12", maximum, half the neck, then up and to the left a little. Wound channel was relatively small, but acceptable. Pictures of the bull and bullet below.

View attachment 221689View attachment 221690View attachment 221691View attachment 221692View attachment 221693View attachment 221694View attachment 221695

Afterwards once out of the back country, I contacted Jason and George (bullet designer and company owner) to talk about what I observed and report my information. After talking about my rifles twist rate, velocity, and some other details, Jason was surprised at the lack of penetration. I asked him about expansion, and he said that is typical, and that they use the hardest copper available (explains the early pressure generally seen with these bullets). George also seemed surprised, and said that what likely happened is that just clipping the vertebrae, which he said is the densest bone in an animal, likely caused the bullet to turn, and when frontal area increases, the rate at which it looses speed quadruples, so if the surface area was 4x the size, it would slow down 16x's faster, and that is what likely caused it to stop so abruptly and slide along the muscle up to the left. As far as expansion, he said that is what he expects from this hollow point design at those speeds, maybe slightly more, and that it was at one point much larger diameter than that, before the petals folded over and rolled back.

I am somewhat torn. I personally am surprised that the bullet didn't punch through, I wonder if a tighter twist would have helped, or if it is just circumstance. I didn't put the bullet in the vital organs, I was off on my wind call by .75 MOA or so, wind was anywhere from a slight whisp up to 15+ mph at times coming from 7 or 8 o'clock where we were, but was going to the left out in the canyon around 5ish mph judging from mirage, and swiftly up hill over at the elk, and I missed the mark on the wind. I have a hard time making a decision or call on bullet performance if it is not placed properly, and generally dispell any information I get from a kill if I didn't do my job as the shooter, but I also am having a hard time accepting that a 270 grain bullet still going over 2100 fps couldn't even punch through the neck of an elk, even with hitting the spine. On the other hand, the bull dropped and didn't get up, though he was still alive, but again, no organs were hit, and the clipping impact to the vertebrae did not cut the spinal cord.

Pretty much all my big game is done for the season, I will likely have my wife use this rifle for her elk and may get a better idea on a shoulder type hit, but this interesting experience has raised my eyebrows at least. Overall I would like to see a little more bullet expansion at these low velocity impacts (after all, it is obviously a long range bullet, low velocity impacts is where it should shine) and if I rebarrel down the road for these bullets, I will do an 8 or 8.5 twist. However, this is just one elk. I try to be objective, and get a good amount of field data prior to making any assumptions about a bullet. Hopefully my wife gets an opportunity, and we can see what happens there.

On a different note, Wedgy made an awesome 987 yard shot on a calf elk on the third day with his 300 RUM using 227 Hammers, she tumbled down the hill close to mine, and my buddy that came along took his first ever elk, a large cow, at 1002 yards with a perfect heart shot from his .338 Norma Mag using 300 Bergers. It was an amazing hunt, but more on that in another thread.....

Thanks all!!View attachment 221697
I am no ballistician but with that small amount of penetration I am guessing it tipped sideways when it clipped the spine? At that range the bullet is tipping down somewhat but it turned and went up.
 

phorwath

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Apr 4, 2005
Messages
6,648
Location
Alaska
More twist couldn't hurt, and might have improved direct line penetration. I ordered an 8.25 twist Bartlein. On the other hand, bullets will do some strange things depending on what they contact. I've seen severe deflection hitting even a cord of tendon, let alone the bone your's impacted. Good thing is this one got the job done, and with very little meat shredding, which is always nice.

The 12" penetration is the dumbfounding part, even if the bullet turned and plowed sideways within the 1st inch of penetration. I learned something from your experience, so thanks again for reporting. Elk must have some Kevlar in their DNA. And I think you picked the toughest bull on earth!

Oh yeah..., nice shot and nice bull too
 

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