AZ Coues deer-6.5 Creedmore and Hammers

[AZShooter]

Having killed a coues every year but two since the early 80s, I commend you for getting such a nice buck.

When first starting to hunt coues I realized the bigger ones kept their distance. Without rangefinders the only way to connect with them was to use a faster bullet to flatten the trajectory. At the time the only rifle I owned was a 284 win. I chose the, new at the time, original Barnes X 100 gr bullet. Got it to go 3600 fps and it helped. Only problem was it rarely killed the deer but did tend to stop them. When I would catch up to the deer had to finish it off. I eventually moved on to bullets that expanded more to make larger wound cavities. Only legislation would make me go back to a mono bullet.

I have to agree with others, as much as I loved Leupolds I quit using them for big game hunting. I had three break just before or during a coues hunt. Typically an erector would break. IMO Should you ever get a chance to get out West again, where shots are long, you might want to get a more reliable scope before a failure in the field ruins the hunt.

 

[dogz]

I hate to be the first one to say it, but you showed up to the fight extremely undergunned and unprepared for a 460 yard shot. Honestly borderline unethical. That CDS turret is garbage unless you've personal verified it at every single yardage. 2 MOA off (high) at 460 yards is unacceptably far. I love hammers, but an 85gr. bullet out of a 6.5 CM at 460 yards is hardly a lethal big game setup. None of this was a failure of anything besides the failure to understand what it truly takes to kill an animal at a long distance. I am definitely glad you got your buck and happy for you. Don't get me wrong about that. But this should seriously be looked at by you and anyone else that thinks these small cartridges and tiny bullets are good for long range killing. They simply are not. And relentless ballistic prep work before the hunt is mandatory if you think you're going to be shooting long distance.

You seriously think that he was undergunned with a 6.5 CM for a 460 yard shot on a coues.......

I guess different thought processes are what make the world go around but to me 460 is hardly long range and for darn sure not even close to unethical!

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I hate to be the first one to say it, but you showed up to the fight extremely undergunned and unprepared for a 460 yard shot. Honestly borderline unethical. That CDS turret is garbage unless you've personal verified it at every single yardage. 2 MOA off (high) at 460 yards is unacceptably far. I love hammers, but an 85gr. bullet out of a 6.5 CM at 460 yards is hardly a lethal big game setup. None of this was a failure of anything besides the failure to understand what it truly takes to kill an animal at a long distance. I am definitely glad you got your buck and happy for you. Don't get me wrong about that. But this should seriously be looked at by you and anyone else that thinks these small cartridges and tiny bullets are good for long range killing. They simply are not. And relentless ballistic prep work before the hunt is mandatory if you think you're going to be shooting long distance.

The 6.5 creed is not undergunned at 460 yards on deer. It boiled down to poor bullet choice and poor bullet placement. That's the bottom line.

 

[AZHTR]

Thanks for the honest assessment of your hunt. I can appreciate that you missed the initial shot because in the heat of the moment we can blame the scope, the setup, whatever, but we've all been there I'm sure!

Glad you stayed on him and found him! Great buck!

 

[Huntnful]

You seriously think that he was undergunned with a 6.5 CM for a 460 yard shot on a coues.......

I guess different thought processes are what make the world go around but to me 460 is hardly long range and for darn sure not even close to unethical!

I should have been more clear. An 85gr bullet at 460 yards and lack of ballistic knowledge but still taking a far shot, is what I was referring to. Not the creedmoor itself. I killed buck at 400 yards with a CM and 143 ELD-X. Even though I had one and killed a pile of stuff with it, it's not impressive whatsoever.

The 6.5 creed is not undergunned at 460 yards on deer. It boiled down to poor bullet choice and poor bullet placement. That's the bottom line.

You are right. Not the creedmoor itself. IMO an 85gr. bullet doesn't belong anywhere near a buck at 460 yards. Riding the absolute bare minimum line for bullet weight and cartridge (yes 6.5 CM is the bare minimum) for Long Range Hunting just isn't necessary. I had a CM and killed 4 bucks with it. I'm not talking for non experience. It is not an impressive long range killing cartridge at all.

 

[itsmrbill]

I hate to be the first one to say it, but you showed up to the fight extremely undergunned and unprepared for a 460 yard shot. Honestly borderline unethical. That CDS turret is garbage unless you've personal verified it at every single yardage. 2 MOA off (high) at 460 yards is unacceptably far. I love hammers, but an 85gr. bullet out of a 6.5 CM at 460 yards is hardly a lethal big game setup. None of this was a failure of anything besides the failure to understand what it truly takes to kill an animal at a long distance. I am definitely glad you got your buck and happy for you. Don't get me wrong about that. But this should seriously be looked at by you and anyone else that thinks these small cartridges and tiny bullets are good for long range killing. They simply are not. And relentless ballistic prep work before the hunt is mandatory if you think you're going to be shooting long distance.

Glad you said what many others are thinking!

 

[parshal]

I would shoot a Scirrocco, a ballistic tip, or a maybe a Berger, just anything that puts a BIG EXIT HOLE IN IT!!

I'm not picking on you Glenn but I was already gonna post this after reading the OP. I've shot three animals with the 130 Scirocco. One mule deer at about 300 that dropped in it's tracks with a neck shot. A mountain goat at 150 in the lungs that went 30 yards. Not a big exit hole but an exit that did not leave a trail. And, a cow elk at 150, in the heart. She kicked and ran off with the herd in waist high sage. She went over 100 yards and left no blood trail but had an exit about the size of the goat. I had to walk in circles until I found her.

I had the same experience this year on a cow at 350 with a 156 Berger. I high double-lunged her and she went less than 50 yards. She was also in open sage and we were elevated so I could see the whole thing. No blood trail although there was blood coming down her side.

Incidentally, I had a similar experience with a Partition on a pig at 100.

In my limited experience of the above, I've had similar results in blood trails with very different bullet construction. I hunted last year with the Hammers but didn't have the opportunity at an animal. I'd pick any of these bullets if those were my only choices. I only post to say that, just because it's a tough bullet, don't expect a blood trail. Those tough bullets are better for breaking bone and anchoring game if that's where you shoot them.

 

[Dr. Mac]

So are you gonna use hammers again?

Good job by the way. Great buck.

My exact question.

 

[Dr. Mac]

So are you gonna use hammers again?

Good job by the way. Great buck.

My exact question.

 

[Hard rock]

My exact question.

What was your impact velocity question too the OP minimum 1800 fps recommended . Also if you would have hit bone like a shoulder shot at that distance it would have been a different story that being said if you would have hit bone at that distance with a fast expanding bullet with a low impact velocity you probably would never found that buck but on the other hand where you impacted by the heart you might had have a better out come the under the spine shot is not a vital area you wouldn't have a blood trail regardless second shot on the hammer missed lungs and heart the main issue hear is not enough impact velocity too make the bullet do what it is designed too do I personally would not let this turn me against any bullet congrats on such a nice deer and one heck of a shot

 

[ButterBean]

I hate to be the first one to say it, but you showed up to the fight extremely undergunned and unprepared for a 460 yard shot. Honestly borderline unethical. That CDS turret is garbage unless you've personal verified it at every single yardage. 2 MOA off (high) at 460 yards is unacceptably far. I love hammers, but an 85gr. bullet out of a 6.5 CM at 460 yards is hardly a lethal big game setup. None of this was a failure of anything besides the failure to understand what it truly takes to kill an animal at a long distance. I am definitely glad you got your buck and happy for you. Don't get me wrong about that. But this should seriously be looked at by you and anyone else that thinks these small cartridges and tiny bullets are good for long range killing. They simply are not. And relentless ballistic prep work before the hunt is mandatory if you think you're going to be shooting long distance.

I concur just a rough calculation shows that bullet at 400 going 1300fps, way below the tested minimum, wrong bullet choice but congrats on a brute

 

[ButterBean]

What was your impact velocity question too the OP minimum 1800 fps recommended . Also if you would have hit bone like a shoulder shot at that distance it would have been a different story that being said if you would have hit bone at that distance with a fast expanding bullet with a low impact velocity you probably would never found that buck but on the other hand where you impacted by the heart you might had have a better out come the under the spine shot is not a vital area you wouldn't have a blood trail regardless second shot on the hammer missed lungs and heart the main issue hear is not enough impact velocity too make the bullet do what it is designed too do I personally would not let this turn me against any bullet congrats on such a nice deer and one heck of a shot

I ran it and it came up 1300fps@ 400

 

[ButterBean]

You seriously think that he was undergunned with a 6.5 CM for a 460 yard shot on a coues.......

I guess different thought processes are what make the world go around but to me 460 is hardly long range and for darn sure not even close to unethical!

With an 85g pill@ 1300fps ..............................Yep

 

[azsugarbear]

Calling someone's well-intentioned actions 'unethical' has no place on this forum. Go back and refresh yourself on the rules.

As an aside, before wild horses and burros were under federal protection, AZ Game & Fish would cull them on a semi-regular basis. These are 300 to 800 lb. animals - probably tougher than the typical coues deer buck at 120 lbs. What was their preferred rifle of choice for culling? A 22-250 with an 80 grain bullet.

I thank the OP for sharing his story and experiences - both the good and the bad. And what a great buck!