Are the best presses for minimal run-out necessary?

[SavageHunter11]

I have a friend who's getting back into reloading for long range shooting. He was asking me about presses and I advised him to get a Co-Ax or a Rockchucker supreme to help minimize run-out on his loads. He asked me if he needs a newer and better press since he has the Hornady concentricity gauge/tool that he can use to correct any misalignment in the bullet when seating. I wasn't sure how to answer and was wondering if you all had an answer. He's has a 10 year old cast Lee press and said he use to straighten all his bullets with the Hornady tool when he use to reload. Would this negate the need for him to buy a better press?

 

[Orange Dust]

My RCBS press is nearly 50 years old. God only knows how many rounds it has loaded. Has to have a bunch of slop in it. It still loads very straight ammo. I've been thinking of buying a new press, but don't really need one. I think dies and case prep are a bigger deal. One thing is for sure, they last a very long time, so if he wants to invent in either of those it is a good investment.

 

[Mikecr]

Presses are like off the shelf dies in that results are unpredictable and not directly tied to cost. Probabilities may be adjusted, but you never really know what will work as best.

 

[bigedp51]

I'm still using the Rockchucker press I bought in 1973 and it makes very concentric ammo.

And a runout gauge will tell you more than buying a new press and guessing.

One of the biggest causes of case neck runout happens if the expander is locked down off center. The next cause of runout would be the bullet tilting when being seated.

This is why I like Forster full length dies and their seater dies. I also use Redding competition shell holders to control the amount of shoulder bump and let the die make hard contact with the shell holder.

Below the Forster benchrest full length dies have a high mounted floating expander. The expander enters the case neck when it is held and centered in the neck of the die.

The Forster benchrest seating die holds the case and bullet in perfect alignment in the die chamber (P-30)

disciples definition

 

[J E Custom]

I have a friend who's getting back into reloading for long range shooting. He was asking me about presses and I advised him to get a Co-Ax or a Rockchucker supreme to help minimize run-out on his loads. He asked me if he needs a newer and better press since he has the Hornady concentricity gauge/tool that he can use to correct any misalignment in the bullet when seating. I wasn't sure how to answer and was wondering if you all had an answer. He's has a 10 year old cast Lee press and said he use to straighten all his bullets with the Hornady tool when he use to reload. Would this negate the need for him to buy a better press?

Quite awhile ago I did an experiment with concentricity and this is what I found.

I have a Hornady concentricity tool and a Sinclair tool so I first checked the empty fired cases and sorted to find cases that didn't have any runout. Then I loaded them with both presses (Rocker supreme and the Forester Co ax) keeping them separate to see the if there were any difference. Next I Measured the runout on both batches.

There was a slight improvement with the forester over the RCBS but not much. I then separated the cartridges by the amount of runout starting with .000. in .001 thousandths increments. At .003 I started trying to straighten them out Using the Hornady Lock and load to get as near to .000 runout as possible

Next was the trip to the range to shoot them. The best groups were with the cartridges that were loaded with .000 runout. next best were with the cartridges that were loaded to .001 and then next best were the ones loaded to .002. The cartridges that I straightened with the Hornady tool shot close to the ones loaded (Between .002 and .003) without any straightening, and from there on they progressively got worse.

So eliminating most if not all runout produces the most accuracy and the more runout you have the more accuracy degrades. It also appears that straightening the cartridges helps but straighten'd ammo is not as good as loaded ammo that has little or no runout. It does work very well for factory ammo if you take the time to check and straighten cartridges that need it (.003 to .004) so it has definitely helped the factory stuff.

Try to load it as straight as you can and straighten the rest and you should see the difference.

No matter what kind of press you have, I would recommend that first you check the fired cases, and with the best you find load one and re check it to see how much runout the press and you added, then repeat the process trying other methods. I found that most of my runout came from the bullet seating step because I check the sizing and found very little.

This is how I found out that my RCBS needed a modification. to get it very close to the Forester. (I removed the spring clip that holds the Shell holder in the ram and used an O Ring to hold it and allowed it to center better.

I also use my RCBS for the big cartridges and the forester for the 308 and down size
cartridges and find that this works the best for me.

J E CUSTOM

 

[cape cove]

I have a Lee Classic Cast which I purchased 6 yrs ago to replace my old one. Using a Redding body die and a Lee collet die I get .000-.0015 case neck run out as long as the cases are prepped properly and use a Forster benchrest seater die to keep my bullet run-out at between 0 and .002 with the vast majority at .001. I believe that run-out is more reliant on good dies and reloading practices than the press being used as long as the press is in decent shape.JMO

 

[ResearchinStuff]

The o-ring trick works very well for reducing runout on a RCBS press. I was also able to reduce runout by turning the case 90-120 degrees and reseating the bullet before calling the shell complete. Since he has a way to measure concentricity there isn't any harm in trying a cheaper press, worst case he'll discover it makes junk ammo, best case it will load nice and straight for him.

Redding or Forster benchrest seating dies and shoulder bump/neck sizing dies definitely matter for getting ammo straight.

 

[dok7mm]

I don't think I could stand to straighten rounds that have excess run-out. Far better to examine the stage where the run-out is induced and correct the problem.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

BigedP51 has it nailed on the forester sizing dies they do float and align better. I have a set for every caliber I load for. That said I find the redding seaters often are a little less runout than the foresters. I end up using dies out of both sets on several calibers. I don't have a co ax press yet so I use a rockchucker for everything, it has .010 movement in ram at full extension. I believe the new co ax when it arrives will improve the runout I now get with loads. Most of my runout comes with seating not sizing so we will see. J E Custom has worked on this and explains it well, a little graphite in the necks helps if your pulling them but you still need float somewhere to prevent it. I have seen the difference between cartridges straightened and cartridges left with runout. But agree if you can produce it straight its best of all. I use the Hornady tool because its best for straightening cartridges. Any concentricity guage will tell you whats happening, but few will help you straighten them. Gun has to be accurate to see the difference with concentric cartridges vs cartridges with runout.

 

[Orange Dust]

I'm still using the Rockchucker press I bought in 1973 and it makes very concentric ammo.

And a runout gauge will tell you more than buying a new press and guessing.

One of the biggest causes of case neck runout happens if the expander is locked down off center. The next cause of runout would be the bullet tilting when being seated.

This is why I like Forster full length dies and their seater dies. I also use Redding competition shell holders to control the amount of shoulder bump and let the die make hard contact with the shell holder.

Below the Forster benchrest full length dies have a high mounted floating expander. The expander enters the case neck when it is held and centered in the neck of the die.

The Forster benchrest seating die holds the case and bullet in perfect alignment in the die chamber (P-30)

disciples definition

Beat me to the punch. I would add a neck turning tool to the list and call it good. Spot on post.

 

[bigedp51]

If you do not mind sizing in two operations you can take any brand full length die and remove the expander and size your cases. They will be as concentric as they ever will be without using the dies expander. Next expand the case necks with an expander die on the upstroke of the ram with the expander pushing down on the base of the case.

I tried the above method vs using a standard Forster full length die and the neck runout was the same. Meaning sizing once with the Forster die produced the same results using the Forster dies expander.

Just remember to polish the expander and lube inside the case necks for low expander friction.

Below a closeup macro photo of a RCBS expander.

Below I modified a Forster expander and spindle assembly and installed it on my Redding FL .243 die. The threaded spindle was simply cut to the proper length and a rubber o-ring was added under the lock ring to allow it to float.

You can also buy Forster expander assemblies and install them on your RCBS dies. Below on the left, the RCBS expander raised as high as it will move and on the right the replacement Forster assembly.

 

[bigedp51]

I have both runout gauges below.

Below the Hornady runout gauge below holds the cartridge like the top image. The problem with this gauge is you can not check case neck runout and need a loaded case to check runout. The bottom image spins the case on the case body like the RCBS gauge.

 

[CatShooter]

I have a friend who's getting back into reloading for long range shooting. He was asking me about presses and I advised him to get a Co-Ax or a Rockchucker supreme to help minimize run-out on his loads. He asked me if he needs a newer and better press since he has the Hornady concentricity gauge/tool that he can use to correct any misalignment in the bullet when seating. I wasn't sure how to answer and was wondering if you all had an answer. He's has a 10 year old cast Lee press and said he use to straighten all his bullets with the Hornady tool when he use to reload. Would this negate the need for him to buy a better press?

It is not the press that determines concentricity, thee press has nothing to do with it - it is only the dies - buy the best dies you can.

 

[Alibiiv]

I have a friend who's getting back into reloading for long range shooting. He was asking me about presses and I advised him to get a Co-Ax or a Rockchucker supreme to help minimize run-out on his loads. He asked me if he needs a newer and better press since he has the Hornady concentricity gauge/tool that he can use to correct any misalignment in the bullet when seating. I wasn't sure how to answer and was wondering if you all had an answer. He's has a 10 year old cast Lee press and said he use to straighten all his bullets with the Hornady tool when he use to reload. Would this negate the need for him to buy a better press?

I had an RCBS RockChucker press for years (30+) and put thousands of rounds through the press with no issues. When I decided I wanted to make reloads that were better than hunting quality I decided to upgrade the press and bought an RCBS RockChucker Supreme. I do not think there was anything wrong with the original RockChucker, but....it's just that I wanted a new press. I've never owned a Co-Ax press so cannot comment on one other than they are difficult to get; I guess production on them is limited.

I do not like the Hornady Lock-N-Load Concentricity tool, I've found that it does not work for me. I may be using it incorrectly, however thinking about listing in the classifieds of the forum. I've been having very good results with annealing, a set of Hornady Custom made dies, and the Sinclair expanding mandrels. I have not had a need for turning necks, however have a set up for the Forster "Original" tool to turn them; getting around .0005 runout with the tool.

Good luck to your friend no matter what direction he decides to go. Reloading is a great hobby with good results for the shooting sports.