Are 224 Bullets Too small for Deer Sized Game?

[Pmacc60]

I've Killed Plenty of Everything from Gophers to ELK with the Sierra 53Gr BTHP 224 in my 22-250 there isn't anything I won't drop with that bullet, 4300 fps 50 - 1000 yds it's going down. one SHOT.

Magic bullets !

 

[Betarider]

The question has never been about "best choice", but is a properly loaded 224 caliber adequate for deer and similar sized game at reasonable ranges? I am in agreement with you, for I have taken far too many deer and other to know. If someone thinks the above 224 bullets are inadequate under the limitations, please explain why and per bullet.

All work if shot in the head!

 

[Varmiter71]

The people who are totally against the idea must all be shooting 338 lapua or 416 barret after all anything less is a compromise.
A friend shoots a 6.5 Creedmoor at around 2600 FPS with a 140 accubond. He has shot several at 600 yards and wants to get one at 1000+ yards
I bought a lapua to shoot that far. And I am either going to build a 22 Creedmoor or 22 dasher for 600 yards to shoot the 88 to 90 grain bullets out now. BC is better and velocity is better and I would have a bullet that would expand better at the lower velocity.

 

[ducky]

Growing up in my home state nothing less than .24 cal was allowed. I believe that has changed now.
IMO rather than caliber the law should be dictated by weight and from a centerfire cartridge. IMO nothing less than 100 grains from a centerfire cartridge, out west where shots can be long.

I live in a state that has caliber, grain, and energy restrictions. Colorado has a .243 or larger caliber requirement, minimum 70 grains for deer, pronghorn, and bear, minimum 85 grains for Elk and Moose, 1000 ft-lbs energy at 100 yards for rifle and 500 ft-lbs energy at 50 yards for pistol. My problem with adding to Regulations is it doesn't take long for them to get "Stupid"!

Take example of your 100 grain requirement. It might work great in a .243 Win, but what about a .308, .30-06? What if a guy with a mini lathe turns some custom 100 grain bullets for his .35 Whelen or .338 Win Mag out of copper? Are these going to be great long range bullets for "out west"? So what are you going to regulate next for "out west", and is it going to get as stupid as you're going to need specialty cartridges to hunt like in some Midwest states?

If you regulate it to where you stick within a regulation, it takes common sense out of the equation. As long as it's legal by the regulation people can do whatever they want to try, regardless if it is a good idea or not. I say let experience and others be the teacher, learn from yours and others success or failure and inform your personal decisions based on that instead of adding more regulations to hunting.

 

[wv270wsm]

1,3,6 is what I would recommend to shoot deer with . 1 looks to me to be a nosler partition. 3 is an accubond almost certain , and 3 looks to me to be a Hornady bullet . By the length of it I'd say somewhere in the 60 gr range
Or maybe I've got 1-3 backwards. But either way. There's lots of jabber on this about no facts just opinions. I know for a fact that a 60 gr nosler partition from a 223 killed 29 deer with one shot kills for my 2 sons when they first started hunting. Out of 29 deer shot with them only 2 took more than one step after the gun fired.
The first buck my son killed was at 125 yards facing downhill. After the shot he jumped straight in the air and ran down the mountain roughly 75 yards and piled up. We did not weigh this deer but the biologist aged him at 3 1/2. Heart and lungs were trashed. We found the bullet just under the hide perfect mushroom
The second one that ran was a monster doe my youngest son shot. He hit her high between top of shoulder and under spine she only went 20 yards over the bank and piled up . The tops of the lungs were destroyed.
I seen my youngest son shoot a doe one evening in the field behind the house at 180 yards dropped her in her tracks she kicked a time or two but by the time we got to her she had expired. He'd hit her right in front of the hams somehow. I'm not certain what caused her to die so quickly but other than maybe shock.
So with the bullets you've pictured those would be my picks 1,3,6 I definitely would be sure to drive them as fast as I could to ensure they deliver as much shock as possible . Just my 2 cents

 

[Pmacc60]

The people who are totally against the idea must all be shooting 338 lapua or 416 barret after all anything less is a compromise.
A friend shoots a 6.5 Creedmoor at around 2600 FPS with a 140 accubond. He has shot several at 600 yards and wants to get one at 1000+ yards
I bought a lapua to shoot that far. And I am either going to build a 22 Creedmoor or 22 dasher for 600 yards to shoot the 88 to 90 grain bullets out now. BC is better and velocity is better and I would have a bullet that would expand better at the lower velocity.

No I don't shoot 338's or 416's at deer and I understand your point. I will speak for my self here , there are better calibers to hunt deer with!

The people who are totally against the idea must all be shooting 338 lapua or 416 barret after all anything less is a compromise.
A friend shoots a 6.5 Creedmoor at around 2600 FPS with a 140 accubond. He has shot several at 600 yards and wants to get one at 1000+ yards
I bought a lapua to shoot that far. And I am either going to build a 22 Creedmoor or 22 dasher for 600 yards to shoot the 88 to 90 grain bullets out now. BC is better and velocity is better and I would have a bullet that would expand better at the lower velocity.

i can only speak for myself , I don't think you need magnums for deer or big calibers . I do however realize over years of experience that you need to use enough gun! If that means you taking nothing but head shots and standing broadside shots at close range a 22 centerfire can work. They are light recoil , very accurate and with the heavier and well constructed bullets they can be deadly. One member said he has kill many deer and hogs on his ranch , he is most likely very proficient and well practiced.
For most of us we kill one to several head of big game a year and are not exactly mountain men. Using a rifle that will work in all sorts of situations is a must. Using a 22 CM with 88 to 90 grain bullets is also not the 22 centerfire norm either and that changes the argument quite a bit as well. I'm reading everything from 53 grain varmint bullets to Nosler partitions. 50 to 1000 yards .... the science doesn't work !
I've been listening to this argument since I was in elementary school ( no exaggeration ) how in Maryland you could use a 222 mag because it achieved 1200 ft lbs of energy. Look even I know you can kill deer with the 22 CF's but 243 win and 6 mm CM would serve better and don't kick to much. I know you can do it but my question is why would you want to?

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

No one is debating other calibers may be more suited for certain situations, but that proper loaded 224's are viable, proven rounds for some situations.

Had to go aways to find the real question in the thread, 224's are indeed viable and proven in some situations especially with the partition and accubonds pictured. I've owned 22-250's since I was 16 in one form or another till now...that said I use other calibers for the situations I routinely encounter where I hunt so they would never be an option to me.

Posts often polarize everyone because we all see things as personal experience dictates where we hunt and shoot.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I killed many deer with a 243 and 95's. I don't see why a 224 with 75-80's can't get it done! I think I saw Nosler has a 70gr accubond? Sounds like deer medicine for a young shooter!

Also, Not that larger calibers are less or more accurate. I just feel smaller/less intense chambers with their mild manner offer you to be more exacting with your shot as well.

 

[Mike D Texas]

After reading through 8 pages I don't have the energy to go back to the first page and look at the bullets again.
My family and I have killed piles of medium game animals with a .223 and a 22-250. Whitetail, hogs up to 250# even an axis or two. You do have to be smart about which bullet you choose but for anyone to say they won't kill is just wrong. We don't take head shots, they are always through or behind the shoulders.
On the .223 we've had our best success with 60 grain partitions, 62 grain trophy bonded bear claw, 62 grain Swift Scirocco and 55 grain Barnes TSX.
Mostly the same bullets in the regular 22-250 but I now have a 22-250 Ackley that I shoot the 75 grain Swift Scirocco at 3600fps and it's like they get hit with lightning. I've only had 1 really big pig run after shooting him with it. It was a 300+ yard shot behind the shoulder. He still piled up in less than 20 yards from where he was shot.

In a nutshell pick a well constructed Bullet, put it through the lungs and animals are gonna die.

 

[okie man]

I'm curious how fast did the deer expire?

some were drt, head neck shots, some ran no farther than 50 yards. A few made it 100 yards or so. Nothing different from other calibers I've seen.

 

[nicholasjohn]

I hear where you are coming from, and it has caused a few to despise the 224's for anything larger than coyotes. However, there are factory loads from Barnes, Winchester, Federal, etc that are designed for medium, thin skinned game. Most people just need education about these rounds, their bullets and where to purchase them. Even many sporting goods sales people are clueless about them.

It's not just a matter of people not knowing about the availability of bullets in this diameter that were designed for use on deer. There's also an unwillingness to believe that these little bullets will work. A lot of the guys who talk them down have never tried them - yet they insist that the bullets won't work. We believe what we want to believe, I guess.

Another thing that is rather puzzling to me is the fact that a guy will take his 375 to Africa and shoot a buffalo that weighs close to a ton. He watches a 300-grain bullet knock the animal right down, and he says "That's why I shoot a big bullet." To the buffalo, a 300-grain bullet is not that big. Relative to the size of the animal, the 60-grain bullet you shoot a 150-pound deer with is a lot bigger. Well, that 300-grain .375 bullet was designed to work on a 1500-pound buffalo. Yep - and so was the deer bullet designed to work well on the deer. It's a matter of scale.

Hunters and shooters read a lot of sporting magazines, and a lot of what we think we know is just stuff that was parroted by magazine writers. They tell us how many foot-pounds of energy it takes to kill this or that animal, and guys believe it like it is the gospel. They won't try something that doesn't fit into the parameters that they've read about. If guys would do their own thinking, and try a few things that they had formerly thought wouldn't work, they might get a few surprises. I hate to use the old cliché about "thinking outside the box", but maybe we just don't need to have a box around our thinking.

 

[nicholasjohn]

I don't typically ever launch bullets through thick brush at any deer with any cartridge. I have taken quite a few does with my 223 by watching specific trails in creek bottoms. Precision shots at 100 yards or less is something a 223 does very well

If you're like me, you probably shoot between the sticks, rather than try to shoot through them. Nothing plows through brush & twigs …….. NOTHING. When the bullet hits the twig, it deflects. Sometimes a little; sometimes a lot. If the twig is closer to the animal than it is to the muzzle, you might get lucky and hit the deer somewhere in the chest, and think that everything is OK. If the twig is right off the end of the muzzle, the deflection is going to be greater, due to angular divergence of the bullet's path from line of sight. That's just the way it works. If there's a hole through the brush that is the size of a dinner plate, you're in luck - thread one through there into the deer's chest, and you're in business. Never mind the size of the bullet - get it into the boiler room, and all will be well.

 

[Pdvdh]

I just purchased a .223 Rem bolt action rifle, specifically for blacktail deer hunting.
Next I purchased 1,000 pulled 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Bullets.
And now I'm loading a reduced load to launch those 62 grain bullets at ~2,650fps, for shots out to ~200yds. I could load them to a bit higher MV, but they wouldn't be any more lethal. Only cause more meat damage. My goal is to maintain impact velocity greater than ~1,950fps. My 2,650fps MV load will accomplish that out to ~200yds.

Oops. Sorry for beating around the bush.
The short (one word) answer to the title of this thread is "No"

 

[nicholasjohn]

I just purchased a .223 Rem bolt action rifle, specifically for blacktail deer hunting.
Next I purchased 1,000 pulled 62 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Bullets.
And now I'm loading a reduced load to launch those 62 grain bullets at ~2,650fps, for shots out to ~200yds. I could load them to a bit higher MV, but they wouldn't be any more lethal. Only cause more meat damage. My goal is to maintain impact velocity greater than ~1,950fps. My 2,650fps MV load will accomplish that out to ~200yds.

Oops. Sorry for beating around the bush.
The short (one word) answer to the title of this thread is "No"

Have you used this particular bullet at higher velocity and found it to be a destroyer ? I would be a bit surprised if it tears up a lot of meat. I haven't used the Bear Claw in this diameter or weight, but I have used a couple different un-bonded jacketed .224 bullets in the 22-250. None of them destroyed a lot of meat, which was why I was using them. I would think that the bullet you mentioned would work quite well at normal velocity.