Action work with barrel change?

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by jrock, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. jrock

    jrock Well-Known Member

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    When I see re-barreling prices, does the smith normally include a check on the front face of the receiver for trueness? Seems the time involved for dialing in a receiver just to check the face would only be warranted if getting paid to blueprint it. What is the standard of care for checking a factory action prior to installing a barrel? Not sure it would matter for must hunting applications if the receiver was out 3 thou.
     
  2. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    You should ask the gunsmith that question when discussing the re-barrel.
     
  3. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    A proper blue printing/accurizing should include facing the receiver face along with everything else.

    Here are some of the things normally done during blue printing.
    Facing/squaring the action face, bolt face, recoil lug faces on the receiver and the bolt, Lap the lugs to get a honed finish for ease of opening and closing, Chasing or re-cutting the action threads and de- burring any sharp edges. This should also include a precision ground recoil lug for the newly squared action face.

    There may be other things depending on the fit and finish of existing parts (Extractors, ejectors, bolt stops, bolt raceway, ETC.

    A proper action truing is always beneficial. A poor or half *** blue printing is a wast of time and money.

    J E CUSTOM
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  4. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    J E CUSTOM is spot on. You should discuss, with the gunsmith, what is included in the package.
     
  5. jrock

    jrock Well-Known Member

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    Will talk to smith but would putting the barrel on a factory receiver without checking the squareness of the face detrimental?
     
  6. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    It's your rifle and your decision to make. Do you want to seriously consider the advice of an unknown, total stranger as Gospel? Do you trust your gunsmith less than an "Internet Expert" ?
     
  7. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Putting new custom barrel ($550. - $600.) on a factory receiver without checking it could be detrimental.

    That would depend on the squareness of that factory receiver, wouldn't it? And how would we know what that squareness is unless we check it? Use your head because using a factory receiver is usually a call for getting it blueprinted, rarely if ever are they truly square and true to the bolt raceway. If factory receivers all came to us square and true, we wouldn't have to worry over having to pay for getting it fixed and a ton of custom action makers would be out of business.

    But, there are a ton of folks who swear by the accuracy of their factory rifles and gloat over how much money they saved by buying a factory rifle. It all depends of how critical you are with regard to how your rifle needs to perform consistently.

    Regards.
     
  8. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    In My opinion, YES.

    I inspect "EVERY" Action, Be it factory or custom to see if/what the action needs. Most factory actions are not true. Some custom actions are not ether, so they must be checked in My opinion. Most are good but not perfect depending on the QC requirements of the builder.

    The idea behind "Blueprinting" is to make everything as square and centered to the bore. This process helps the rifle be consistent shot to shot. (What we have to have for long shots) and also it makes the rifle very forgiving when shooting different loads. (If a proper Blueprinting is done, the rifle will shoot most ammo very well and really respond to the best loads.

    After going to the trouble of replacing the barrel with a quality aftermarket barrel if the action is not true, you would never find out how well the barrel will perform.

    Just my opinion

    J E CUSTOM
     
  9. EddieHarren

    EddieHarren Well-Known Member

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    OP, here you have a response from a man who actually performs the work that you are describing. You can take his advice to the bank. I'm sure the gunsmith that you select to barrel your rifle will have his opinion as well. Isn't that much more desirable than a variety of opinions from un substantiated "Internet Experts" who may have never actually installed a barrel in their life?
     
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  10. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Well-Known Member

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    You can check some things quickly. To really check an action takes about 5 minutes less than it takes to true it. You have to dial it in to measure the surfaces, at that point its only another 5 minutes to make the cuts. So far as custom actions... most are not either. And most smiths arent checking.
     
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  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Eddie, I don't think of my self an expert, just someone that leaves no stone UN turned, but i do consider myself a craftsman and want perfection if i can achieve it.

    Over the years, I have developed a procedure for everything to with a rifle in order to feel comfortable that when it is finished, it will be the best I can build. I try to eliminate every possible defect/irregularity as I go. this includes all components such as barrels, actions, stocks, triggers, chambers, bedding, scope/sites mounting, loading's, and anything else I find. I have found that If I fix/eliminate everything I find I will end up with a great shooting rifle.

    Action truing is one of these procedures, and I have been astonished with how bad some parts are and how good other parts are. These differences have convinced me that I must check every action Factory or custom. Foe the most part, some custom actions are very well made and accurately machined, but they need to be checked because all are not perfect. Assuming that they are, will only lead to less than the best performance.

    Factory actions, are rarely perfect and need to be blue printed for accuracy because the fact that they are mass produced, the acceptance standards are not as stringent as some of the custom actions.

    There has long been a debate as to differences in cost and performance between the factory action and the custom action.
    In my opinion, When both are machined true to the bore and held to close tolerances there is little if any accuracy difference. the actions job is to hold the cartridge perfectly straight and in the same position "Every"time before, during and after each firing. Most custom actions actions have features that many want and cannot get in the factory actions, so they are more attractive to the more discriminating shooter. but with these features comes added cost.

    The smiths that are not at least checking the custom actions are taking a lot for granted and risking poor performance from a rifle with all top end parts. Accuracy Is built in, not bought. Saying that "That's good enough" or "That will be fine" will lead to problems that may never be found and corrected. Take care of everything you can find, and you never have to wonder what is wrong or what If i had done this better.

    Blue print every action, and don't leave out any steps then when it comes time to start working up accurate loads, it will be easier and faster to reach your goals.

    Just My Opinion

    J E CUSTOM
     
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  12. B23

    B23 Well-Known Member

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    Also, most of your better smiths won't give you any kind of accuracy guarantee if you don't blueprint the action.

    I have a lot of semi custom rifles built of Rem 700 actions and I wouldn't think of having a new custom barrel spun on the receiver without first having it blueprinted. For me, it's easily worth the couple hundred bucks it cost for that extra little insurance everything turn out like I want it to.

    There are plenty of good gunsmiths out there that can properly blueprint a receiver but unfortunately there's also a few that are hacks too. It's easy enough to find a good gunsmith so make sure you use someone qualified to do the job. There's many on this forum that can either do the work or suggest someone in your area to use.
     
  13. jrock

    jrock Well-Known Member

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    The action is a Ruger M77 so I'm sure the surfaces are all over the place. The replacement barrel is an economy grade. Expectation is for a short range hunting rifle. My local smith told me that if could do one or the other (blueprinting or barrel replacement) that the barrel would give more improvement. If I pay the smith to set up the action to check the surfaces, as everyone has noted here, I'm basically paying for the cuts as they don't take much time. A assume the minimum cuts would be the face and lug cleanups. Using deductive reasoning, removing 1 to 2 thou off the face of the lugs wouldn't change primary extraction much. I know people will say to do the whole blue printing job or none at all but I don't think the action is worth a full blueprint.
     
  14. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    My last Win Model 70 New Haven made classic stainless action I built a 264WM off, started life as a 338WM with .026” runout at the muzzle.
    I assumed it would have been a combination of the barrel shoulder/action shoulder face and barrel.
    Nope... barrel was good, less than .002” by a couple tenths.
    Barrel shoulder was .0164” out and the action shoulder face was .0087” off true. Due to this, the threads weren’t true, so the barrel screwed on crooked.
    I picked this barreled action up CHEAP because the guy THOUGHT the scope base holes were drilled off centre, when in fact it was the reasons above that the rear ring required so much adjustment. You could see how much the scope was offset to aim where the barrel was pointing.

    I kept that rifle because it SHOOTS less than 1/4 MoA.

    I would true everything up, it’s the only way to know it’s right.

    Cheers.
    :)
     
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