buffalorancher
Well-Known Member
I'll bet there is an awful lot of people here because of BOTW. It would be interesting to know how many people here got started with LRH because of these guys.
A real LRH topic - I hope....
- Thread starter royinidaho
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
I saidI would not post on this subject but just one more.
After a few days to reflect, I realize I came down pretty hard on John. The main reason was he seemed to be going after Shawn pretty hard for his comments and at the moment, that bothered me as I hold Shawn in great respect and consider him a friend.
That said, I could have posted differently and to John, Len and those on LRH, I would like to extend my apology for the aggressive posts. I tend to get fired up when someone takes some jabs at one of my friends.
Shawn certainly does not need me to stand up for him in any way, that is hardly the case and I should have just let it be and let Shawn handle it as he did very well.
Simply put, just wanted to make the point to John, Len and the other members that after reading my posts again, they certainly came off more aggressive then I intended.
I still have questions about the videos but that is a moot point.
I do wish John would post on LRH more. It would not take long and I am sure he would feel like a family member. The only time we hear from him is when someone brings up his videos. WOuld be nice if he would hang around all the time.
Kirby Allen(50)
After a few days to reflect, I realize I came down pretty hard on John. The main reason was he seemed to be going after Shawn pretty hard for his comments and at the moment, that bothered me as I hold Shawn in great respect and consider him a friend.
That said, I could have posted differently and to John, Len and those on LRH, I would like to extend my apology for the aggressive posts. I tend to get fired up when someone takes some jabs at one of my friends.
Shawn certainly does not need me to stand up for him in any way, that is hardly the case and I should have just let it be and let Shawn handle it as he did very well.
Simply put, just wanted to make the point to John, Len and the other members that after reading my posts again, they certainly came off more aggressive then I intended.
I still have questions about the videos but that is a moot point.
I do wish John would post on LRH more. It would not take long and I am sure he would feel like a family member. The only time we hear from him is when someone brings up his videos. WOuld be nice if he would hang around all the time.
Kirby Allen(50)
ss7mm
Well-Known Member
Kirby:
Well said.
This same type of thing happens almost every spring. First there's the big let down after hunting season, then the bad weather sets in and we're all trapped inside with cabin fever and we can't get out and do what we love to do.
Then, finally, the weather breaks, things start to dry out and we all once again get back outdoors and start shooting etc. and all is well with the world.
I know what you mean about standing up for friends. We all tend to do it.....I've even done it a time or two myself.
I also would like to see John on here more often. He's a big asset to our sport and has a lot of knowledge that would help a lot of people. I understand how he feels about his "welcome back" but I doubt that there is anyone on here that doesn't want him to come back and post more often.
Well said.
This same type of thing happens almost every spring. First there's the big let down after hunting season, then the bad weather sets in and we're all trapped inside with cabin fever and we can't get out and do what we love to do.Then, finally, the weather breaks, things start to dry out and we all once again get back outdoors and start shooting etc. and all is well with the world.
I know what you mean about standing up for friends. We all tend to do it.....I've even done it a time or two myself.
I also would like to see John on here more often. He's a big asset to our sport and has a lot of knowledge that would help a lot of people. I understand how he feels about his "welcome back" but I doubt that there is anyone on here that doesn't want him to come back and post more often.
Coues Sniper
Well-Known Member
Kirby:
Well said.
Then, finally, the weather breaks, things start to dry out and we all once again get back outdoors and start shooting etc. and all is well with the world.
I know what you mean about standing up for friends. We all tend to do it.....I've even done it a time or two myself.
I also would like to see John on here more often. He's a big asset to our sport and has a lot of knowledge that would help a lot of people. I understand how he feels about his "welcome back" but I doubt that there is anyone on here that doesn't want him to come back and post more often.
Very true, and well put
. I agree on all points.geesh
John,
I'm not sure why you reacting so badly. Shawn clearly commented on what he thought he saw. And then replied by saying you were there and he trusts your word. For you to get all upset and worked up over this is stupid. Anyone who has shot or hunted at long range knows things aren't perfect I'm not sure why you feel so compelled to act like it is?
If you read your Private Messages I sent you one asking for your contact info as I'd like to buy one of your scopes. I have been on your side!!! My comments about Kirby and Shawn are just observations based on their expertise. I'm not sure how you can take them so personal we're only talking about a video you made not YOU.. We all agree it's a great video and we all want you to continue making them and we will buy them when you do. Settle down man.
If I were you I'd reread Shawn's and Kirby's comments when your not all worked up. Keep in mind Shawn is an Ex Swat member and gunsmith, Kirby is a gunsmith with confirmed kills overs 2000 yds. I think you would be better off cooling down and sticking around this site. You could be a great resource for us.
John,
I'm not sure why you reacting so badly. Shawn clearly commented on what he thought he saw. And then replied by saying you were there and he trusts your word. For you to get all upset and worked up over this is stupid. Anyone who has shot or hunted at long range knows things aren't perfect I'm not sure why you feel so compelled to act like it is?
If you read your Private Messages I sent you one asking for your contact info as I'd like to buy one of your scopes. I have been on your side!!! My comments about Kirby and Shawn are just observations based on their expertise. I'm not sure how you can take them so personal we're only talking about a video you made not YOU.. We all agree it's a great video and we all want you to continue making them and we will buy them when you do. Settle down man.
If I were you I'd reread Shawn's and Kirby's comments when your not all worked up. Keep in mind Shawn is an Ex Swat member and gunsmith, Kirby is a gunsmith with confirmed kills overs 2000 yds. I think you would be better off cooling down and sticking around this site. You could be a great resource for us.
Call it Overboard
I completely understand John's response. There was no proof... only allegations that a number of member's promoted as the righteous truth. All in all we needed to lighten it up and cut the man some slack. Unless John's a glutton for punishment, I can't see him being overly eager to become a regular poster on this forum, and that's a shame... on us.
But sincere apologies have been offered and I hope John considers those gestures and decides to share some of his experiences, for all to enjoy.
I completely understand John's response. There was no proof... only allegations that a number of member's promoted as the righteous truth. All in all we needed to lighten it up and cut the man some slack. Unless John's a glutton for punishment, I can't see him being overly eager to become a regular poster on this forum, and that's a shame... on us.
But sincere apologies have been offered and I hope John considers those gestures and decides to share some of his experiences, for all to enjoy.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 5,567
I would have taken that shot,or any of the others,but that is not hunting where I come from!That is great long range shooting,we do everything possible over here to get as close as the terrain permits.If that means 400-500 yds,so be it.
This type of 'hunting' doesn't come across well Down Under,don't get me wrong,I am an avid fan of long range hunting,but it seems to me that if they had of panned the camera round,you would have seen their vehicle just a 100 yds or so behind them!
The 'sit' is what we teach over here more than any other,it is almost as steady as prone,if done correctly.So yes I would have taken that shot from the 'sit'.
MagnumManiac
gun)
lerch
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Well im coming in real late to this topic and i aint wanting to stir the pot. i am only wanting to reinforce one thing. on the topic of watching a hit animal i firmly agree with keeping eyes on the animal until you are SURE it is down for good!
Just this last fall Bill Bailey my long time hunting buddy shot the buck of his lifetime. unfortunatly we were not setting together when he made the shot but either way he did a good job. the only problem was that once the made the 470yd shot he got back on the scope and saw the buck lift his head and then fall back down. now this shot was far back but with a 300gr bullet from his 338 edge the job was done. the problem was that he was so excited he jumped on the radio and was calling me and shortly on his way to pick me up and get the deer. problem was he didnt mark where the animal fell!!! now this occured on a small patch of land, about 40 acre radios where the animal could be but the grass was around 4ft tall. now if you have tried to find a downed deer in that kind of grass you can understand how hard it can be!! my first question to him was if he marked the animal with a land mark in line with his stand, no he was to excited. I really cant blame him cause a near 170" deer can do that to ya but after 30min of looking for the buck he was cussing the mistake. anyway we found the buck and all was good.
bottom line is though, watch the animal, make sure its down, and figure out a easy way to find it. as far as how this translates to public broadcasted video i dont know or really care/
steve
Just this last fall Bill Bailey my long time hunting buddy shot the buck of his lifetime. unfortunatly we were not setting together when he made the shot but either way he did a good job. the only problem was that once the made the 470yd shot he got back on the scope and saw the buck lift his head and then fall back down. now this shot was far back but with a 300gr bullet from his 338 edge the job was done. the problem was that he was so excited he jumped on the radio and was calling me and shortly on his way to pick me up and get the deer. problem was he didnt mark where the animal fell!!! now this occured on a small patch of land, about 40 acre radios where the animal could be but the grass was around 4ft tall. now if you have tried to find a downed deer in that kind of grass you can understand how hard it can be!! my first question to him was if he marked the animal with a land mark in line with his stand, no he was to excited. I really cant blame him cause a near 170" deer can do that to ya
but after 30min of looking for the buck he was cussing the mistake. anyway we found the buck and all was good. bottom line is though, watch the animal, make sure its down, and figure out a easy way to find it. as far as how this translates to public broadcasted video i dont know or really care/
steve
alexkeyser
Well-Known Member
I thought we already covered making accusations without any fact to back them up. who the hell knows what's behind them Without asking, I wouldn't take away from a man's hunt by throwing out a stupid comment like that. Those guys could have packed it in 5, 6, even 10 miles for all we know. It seems since the last barrage John Burns, once again, has been chased off the site, way to go guys. maybe we can try and chase some other knowledgable member away next. Maybe I'll start insulting Kirby's wildcats and make some false statements, you know, really trash them. I won't think first, or look for factual info. or anything, just shoot my freaking mouth off, without thinking, kind of stuff grow up.
P.S. no offense kirby just venting
Without asking, I wouldn't take away from a man's hunt by throwing out a stupid comment like that. Those guys could have packed it in 5, 6, even 10 miles for all we know. It seems since the last barrage John Burns, once again, has been chased off the site, way to go guys. maybe we can try and chase some other knowledgable member away next. Maybe I'll start insulting Kirby's wildcats and make some false statements, you know, really trash them. I won't think first, or look for factual info. or anything, just shoot my freaking mouth off, without thinking, kind of stuff grow up. P.S. no offense kirby just venting
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
No sweat, been done many times!!!! LOL
I offered an apology to John. It was sincere on my end. If he accepts it great, if not, that is on him now. I saw where I was wrong and made the point in public to claim up to it.
On the other end, if your going to do something out of the norm or offer a product that pushes things past the current accepted max limits of performance, just because of human nature you better be expecting some comments to be made.
I have taken and still take my fair share for some of the wildcats I offer which is fine, I offer solid factual numbers for their performance, offer their strengths and weaknesses and let the individual make up their minds for themselves.
I have been called a liar, a fake, a fraud and a salesman. I have also been called a great smith and great wildcat designer. Simply put, I hope John accepts my apology as it was intended for him only but felt he deserved a public apology.
As far as Shawn is concerned, I see no reason why he should apologize. He simply made a comment based on the video at hand and as soon as John stated how things happened in real time, Shawn took him for his word. No harm, no foul. I got a bit more aggressive so I posted a public apology as I felt that was needed.
Nuff said. I do not think we ran John off, just questioned a section of his videos. If I left everytime someone called me out, well, I would not be here, lets just leave it at that!!!
Kirby Allen(50)
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
I just found this thread tonight after a fellow member pointed it out to me. While I surely did not read every post (nor will I) there were several points that stood out in what I did read.
First, and correct me if I'm wrong, someone was harping on someone else that a shot looked like it didn't go where it was intended on a video? Well, from killing hoards of animals from 600 yards out to 2000 yards and videotaping most of them, I have come to one conclusion: You can't always see everything from videotape. You must simply have to be there on the spot sometimes to see the correct thing. I have watched my video of my cow moose I shot this year at 982 yards probably 1000 times and still can't quite see exactly where my first bullet that hit her went even though I know from skinning it out that it went into the chest somewhere from the upper part of her back. But someone watching it might think shot missed entirely.
Second, I have been around hunting long enough to know that **** happens sometimes no matter how well prepared and how lucky you are. That is just how it is. Eventually, even the luckiest guy has his luck run out.
Thirdly, I am in the party that believes no harm no foul. Worrying about the what-ifs after the fact is a waste of time. Partly because of the fact that if you weren't there, you weren't there and that will change the perspective almost certainly.
Fourth, an animal that is hit in the shoulder/spine can absolutely immediately tuck just it's back legs and hit butt first. The bull moose my friend shot just after I shot my cow moose did this very thing. The bullet hit it dead center high shoulder/spine and it hit butt first and then whiplashed it's nose into the dirt. It wiggled and ran upside down for a minute and then was still.
There have also been probably half a dozen elk I have shot that were punched in the shoulder and folded their back legs first. This is not surprising to me at all.
And lastly, I am guilty of letting someone else shoot my rifle to kill a long range animal when they had never shot long distance before. I know this goes against the collective but I don't apologize. It worked out every time without a loss of animal and it converted a couple non-believers into pro-long range hunters in about 1.02 seconds flight time. I knew if they did what I told them to do, my coaching and equipment would be up to the task. And besides, I wouldn't feel very good about myself if I knew I could help someone fill their tag on the last day and didn't.
While I don't agree with all of John Burn's methods (like BDC dials), he has taken a lot of flack from the general uneducated public on our behalf and it ain't easy to put up with that.
Btw, I have video of the moose that could be put on here if someone wants to see them and will put them on here for me.
First, and correct me if I'm wrong, someone was harping on someone else that a shot looked like it didn't go where it was intended on a video? Well, from killing hoards of animals from 600 yards out to 2000 yards and videotaping most of them, I have come to one conclusion: You can't always see everything from videotape. You must simply have to be there on the spot sometimes to see the correct thing. I have watched my video of my cow moose I shot this year at 982 yards probably 1000 times and still can't quite see exactly where my first bullet that hit her went even though I know from skinning it out that it went into the chest somewhere from the upper part of her back. But someone watching it might think shot missed entirely.
Second, I have been around hunting long enough to know that **** happens sometimes no matter how well prepared and how lucky you are. That is just how it is. Eventually, even the luckiest guy has his luck run out.
Thirdly, I am in the party that believes no harm no foul. Worrying about the what-ifs after the fact is a waste of time. Partly because of the fact that if you weren't there, you weren't there and that will change the perspective almost certainly.
Fourth, an animal that is hit in the shoulder/spine can absolutely immediately tuck just it's back legs and hit butt first. The bull moose my friend shot just after I shot my cow moose did this very thing. The bullet hit it dead center high shoulder/spine and it hit butt first and then whiplashed it's nose into the dirt. It wiggled and ran upside down for a minute and then was still.
There have also been probably half a dozen elk I have shot that were punched in the shoulder and folded their back legs first. This is not surprising to me at all.
And lastly, I am guilty of letting someone else shoot my rifle to kill a long range animal when they had never shot long distance before. I know this goes against the collective but I don't apologize. It worked out every time without a loss of animal and it converted a couple non-believers into pro-long range hunters in about 1.02 seconds flight time. I knew if they did what I told them to do, my coaching and equipment would be up to the task. And besides, I wouldn't feel very good about myself if I knew I could help someone fill their tag on the last day and didn't.
While I don't agree with all of John Burn's methods (like BDC dials), he has taken a lot of flack from the general uneducated public on our behalf and it ain't easy to put up with that.
Btw, I have video of the moose that could be put on here if someone wants to see them and will put them on here for me.
Last edited:
Looks like they are ragging on his rifles now over on 24 hour campfire and some guys says they have misses and wound game. I basically dont care either way his ethics are his own, but I dont want to see LRH maligned. Maybe Mr. Burns will post there and set the record straight.
24hourcampfire: best of the west rifles what a joke!!
24hourcampfire: best of the west rifles what a joke!!
Strick9
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2007
- Messages
- 390
I have hunted in the same camp with Jon, and shot with him for five days in a row..We argued like cats and dogs, he took it from a newbie as my questions are almost allways phrased like well I don't know about that but what about this, I am a rather pig headed , school of hard knocks kinda guy but getting better as age increases , thank god. He handled it well and showed me many lights I was at first not willing to see..
I quite honestly feel it is his personality type that most of us clash with,,He really knows his stuff, and like me when it comes to the subjects that I eat, sleep and breathe and am considered by many as a proffesional, when criticism occurs it riles me up pretty quick, and by nature I will squelch them quickly if incorrect.
I know of few others that have witnessed or participated in as many kills as him.
Tom Brown wrote the Following in THE VISION, " When running towards a battle, certainly there will be warriors bumping into each other, but their main goal is to win the battle."
I quite honestly feel it is his personality type that most of us clash with,,He really knows his stuff, and like me when it comes to the subjects that I eat, sleep and breathe and am considered by many as a proffesional, when criticism occurs it riles me up pretty quick, and by nature I will squelch them quickly if incorrect.
I know of few others that have witnessed or participated in as many kills as him.
Tom Brown wrote the Following in THE VISION, " When running towards a battle, certainly there will be warriors bumping into each other, but their main goal is to win the battle."
