6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?

[WildRose]

Data shows that a 140 out of a 7-08 will perform better than a 140 out of a 6.5 CM. Did the comparison to show the original data of comparing a 140 GR high BC 6.5 CM with a low BC 150 gr 7mm bullet out of a 7-08 (in post #413) was not an accurate comparison either.

Well no **** Maynard, you're comparing a heavy for caliber 6.5 to a light for caliber 7mm.

Run the numbers with a similar 180gr 7mm and see what you get.

 

[Barrelnut]

And as I said it's not in any way a fair comparison since you're comparing a heavy for caliber 6.5 to a light for caliber 7mm.

It is a fair comparison. I don't care to how you perceive it. Don't care to debate it either.

 

[WildRose]

It is a fair comparison. I don't care to how you perceive it. Don't care to debate it either.

No, not even close. You might as well try comparing two dragsters one equipped with a v8 and the other with a 4 cylinder.

 

[FIGJAM]

I read where he said that but I don't believe it. As bad as he wants to condemn you, if he was really a numbers guy he would have said something about that 58.8 gr 6.5 Creedmoor load you listed.

This a awesome - keep it coming. I am going to be out chasing coyotes the next few days and might not keep up with this thread. I've been waiting for some of Steve's buddies to come to his rescue. You or Steve or Rhian can PM me and I'll give you guys my cell number so you can keep me up to speed on whats being said.

The thread has actually picked up some momentum. I like the discussions about the 6.5 bullets themselves and their effectiveness, especially vs the 7mms. That is really what this is all about. If the OP's post would have been about a 7mm08 would it have generated so much controversy? Maybe, I don't know - I doubt we would have heard hate towards a specific cartridge, my guess is it would be a different conversation. The 7mms have got a lot of love for a really long time here in the US. 6.5's have only seemed to have small cult like followings in any cartridge here until the creed came along. Seems like its sudden popularity rubs traditionalists the wrong way. Too bad Remington's marketing department, bullets and barrel twists suck - we could be arguing about the 260 Rem.

 

[Bravo 4]

Deleted

 

[the hunter]

I know you are a numbers guy, you said so. Which bullets? What were the atmospherics, vel and the actual needed corrections at what ranges? If you actually want to contribute to the cause then do it. So far all you have done is run your mouth with no evidence. If you have real data we will make corrections. We want as much accuracy as possible. So far you have a lot of opinion with nothing to back it up. Do you have any credentials? Engineer, physicist, ballistician, metallurgist? Have you done anything to advance the sport?

I now expect another personal attack with no merit.

I do not need credentials, i'am retarded

 

[Capt RB]

Karamojo Bell used a 6.5x54 Mannlicher for about 300 elephants. That has less velocity than the 6.5creedmoor. After 300ish elephants he gave it up due to unreliable ammo. If hornady had been making the ammo he would have keep shooting it Instead of stepping up to the big bore 275 Rigby(7x57 mauser) for 800 more elephants. This gets back to putting the right bullet in the right place. He preferred it to his 450/400 claiming the 275 killed just as fast. The fastest killer on some shots he used was the 318 Westly Richards 250 grn fmj according to written folk lure. It's hard to say because the writer making the claim loves 250 .338's. I've heard writers claim that Jack O'Conner preferred the 280 or 06 over his beloved 270. Yet this was after the source was gone and couldn't be verified . In both cases the writers both had fetishs for the 7mm or 30 bore.
I posted this is because we have not always had the luxuries we have today in the shooting world.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Yes, the only thing missing in the Bell and Jack stories are the full depictions of what they stated later on in life.

Bell was not thrilled with the results of the small bore cartridges,,, it took him 1300+ rounds to harvest the first 800 elephants,,, all of them at close range in the soft spot,,, he called it the Bell shot.

All of us can thank Bell since he proved to most African Nations that small caliber cartridges are not practical tools for Harvesting dangerous game.

Let's look at Jack O'Connor.
Lots of people forget that Jack was a big bore shooter in Africa and in Canada,,, he was the backer of the 416 Rigby. and a few other cannons.
Defiantly the 30/06 when he came up here to hunt Moose in the North.

Funny how people like to share part of the stories, but forget to add the rest of it.

That's the nice thing about the WWW, all of us have access to read the full stories to decide what parts we choose to believe. LOL

That's why I own the best Granola rifle ever built,,, the worst shoulder angle,,, tappered case design,,, invented 113 years ago,,, its only harvested a few critters around the world,,, ain't the best of the best,,, not the worst either. Just enough to get by at close range harvests like Bell & Jack... We might not want to forget that long range hunting in those days was 35 to 140 yards,,, sometimes Jack would reach out there a bit past this for thin skin critters.

Not Bell, he was a close range eye to eye shooter.

 

[Orange Dust]

Yes, the only thing missing in the Bell and Jack stories are the full depictions of what they stated later on in life.

Bell was not thrilled with the results of the small bore cartridges,,, it took him 1300+ rounds to harvest the first 800 elephants,,, all of them at close range in the soft spot,,, he called it the Bell shot.

All of us can thank Bell since he proved to most African Nations that small caliber cartridges are not practical tools for Harvesting dangerous game.

Let's look at Jack O'Connor.
Lots of people forget that Jack was a big bore shooter in Africa and in Canada,,, he was the backer of the 416 Rigby. and a few other cannons.
Defiantly the 30/06 when he came up here to hunt Moose in the North.

Funny how people like to share part of the stories, but forget to add the rest of it.

That's the nice thing about the WWW, all of us have access to read the full stories to decide what parts we choose to believe. LOL

That's why I own the best Granola rifle ever built,,, the worst shoulder angle,,, tappered case design,,, invented 113 years ago,,, its only harvested a few critters around the world,,, ain't the best of the best,,, not the worst either. Just enough to get by at close range harvests like Bell & Jack... We might not want to forget that long range hunting in those days was 35 to 140 yards,,, sometimes Jack would reach out there a bit past this for thin skin critters.

Not Bell, he was a close range eye to eye shooter.

I understand Bell was also an excellent athlete, dodged many charges, and lived to tell about it.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Us humans "sometimes" forget what counts in the shooting sports,,, not all of us,,, but the majority of us follow the simple rule of thumb.

Go to shop,,, buy rifle,,, pick up ammo,,, sight it in,,, stop at gas station,,, pick up tags,,, go hunting. Oh,,, and remember to bring lawn chair,,, ground cover and pillow if we plan on spending the night. Ha.

Humans like to confuse things, mess it all up with math and numbers,,, jump on the the Web to share this data that dosen't mean alot to the average Joe or Sue,,, the masses are hunter gathers like the fore father's and mothers before us.

Nothing wrong with jumping into the new and improved if that's what floats the boat. Some of the younger generation might follow along with our hobby,,, but the larger portion isn't jumping on board.

The costs to get into it, hunting permission "could" factor into it,,, and time... How many young folks have the time,,, would they buy in new & improved,,, or take on second hand / hand-me-down.

Soooooo many ways to look at the big confusing pie of endless.

Let's face it, the larger % of humans buy what they like and want,,, some shoot their new to them iron once or twice,,, others a bit more. Target only or hunting,,, purhaps both if it works out.

Don't know since I follow my own lead now days,,, unless when I'm shooting match,,, I follow my """1""" lead since he pretty much has it down to a science. Ha... The both of us do pretty good with old school as we keep it simple. Sometimes we show up at these matches missing some of our gear,,, Ha. No problem as we seem to manage with borrowed equipment for the day.

Grail, Pail, Hail, or Mail. It's all part of the Ail program,,, each human gets to pick and choose what works for them,,, the easy path is much more fun than over thinking things.

Load heavy, shot long, think small,,, enjoy the irons you have if there dialed in,,, the best shooters out there know the winds,,, that what gets the little trajectory into the V ring down range you know. LOL

 

[WildRose]

Yes, the only thing missing in the Bell and Jack stories are the full depictions of what they stated later on in life.

Bell was not thrilled with the results of the small bore cartridges,,, it took him 1300+ rounds to harvest the first 800 elephants,,, all of them at close range in the soft spot,,, he called it the Bell shot.

All of us can thank Bell since he proved to most African Nations that small caliber cartridges are not practical tools for Harvesting dangerous game.

Let's look at Jack O'Connor.
Lots of people forget that Jack was a big bore shooter in Africa and in Canada,,, he was the backer of the 416 Rigby. and a few other cannons.
Defiantly the 30/06 when he came up here to hunt Moose in the North.

Funny how people like to share part of the stories, but forget to add the rest of it.

That's the nice thing about the WWW, all of us have access to read the full stories to decide what parts we choose to believe. LOL

That's why I own the best Granola rifle ever built,,, the worst shoulder angle,,, tappered case design,,, invented 113 years ago,,, its only harvested a few critters around the world,,, ain't the best of the best,,, not the worst either. Just enough to get by at close range harvests like Bell & Jack... We might not want to forget that long range hunting in those days was 35 to 140 yards,,, sometimes Jack would reach out there a bit past this for thin skin critters.

Not Bell, he was a close range eye to eye shooter.

The Rule with Elephants is that if they move keep shooting no matter what caliber you are shooting so even at 2,3 even 4:1 shots: per elephant no conclusion as to the effectiveness of the cartridge can be made.

 

[WildRose]

Us humans "sometimes" forget what counts in the shooting sports,,, not all of us,,, but the majority of us follow the simple rule of thumb.

Go to shop,,, buy rifle,,, pick up ammo,,, sight it in,,, stop at gas station,,, pick up tags,,, go hunting. Oh,,, and remember to bring lawn chair,,, ground cover and pillow if we plan on spending the night. Ha.

Humans like to confuse things, mess it all up with math and numbers,,, jump on the the Web to share this data that dosen't mean alot to the average Joe or Sue,,, the masses are hunter gathers like the fore father's and mothers before us.

Nothing wrong with jumping into the new and improved if that's what floats the boat. Some of the younger generation might follow along with our hobby,,, but the larger portion isn't jumping on board.

The costs to get into it, hunting permission "could" factor into it,,, and time... How many young folks have the time,,, would they buy in new & improved,,, or take on second hand / hand-me-down.

Soooooo many ways to look at the big confusing pie of endless.

Let's face it, the larger % of humans buy what they like and want,,, some shoot their new to them iron once or twice,,, others a bit more. Target only or hunting,,, purhaps both if it works out.

Don't know since I follow my own lead now days,,, unless when I'm shooting match,,, I follow my """1""" lead since he pretty much has it down to a science. Ha... The both of us do pretty good with old school as we keep it simple. Sometimes we show up at these matches missing some of our gear,,, Ha. No problem as we seem to manage with borrowed equipment for the day.

Grail, Pail, Hail, or Mail. It's all part of the Ail program,,, each human gets to pick and choose what works for them,,, the easy path is much more fun than over thinking things.

Load heavy, shot long, think small,,, enjoy the irons you have if there dialed in,,, the best shooters out there know the winds,,, that what gets the little trajectory into the V ring down range you know. LOL

I've had a lot of experience with that younger generation through the dog and outfitting businesses over the last 30 years and most of them seem to be thrill seeking adrenaline junkies who have been raised on getting the newest, fastest, bestest, coolest thing to come out lately to impress their friends whether it's the wisest choice or not.

After a decade or so of having to pay their own bills they then tend to start looking at what worked for mom/dad, grandad etc.

It's like Ford, Chevy, Dodge though, once they tie onto a rifle brand, caliber, brand of glass etc they become blinded in most cases again just because they can't stand the thought of being wrong about any of their choices.

 

[Dirtrax]

I don't know how many of the folks posting here have actually been up close and personal with Elk on a regular basis. They pass through my yard a few times a year and when things work out they pass through my crosshairs in the woods. Like any game under the right circumstances they can be probably harvested with just about any cartridge. A 6.5 WM is not a 6.5 Creedmoor period. Neither would be my choice but a 180gr 7mm or 180gr "anything else" or bigger sounds about right. They have an incredible will to live and the best of us will find ourselves eventually tracking an animal with a well placed shot from an "adequate" cartridge. I'm not in a position to say what is enough gun, but I have passed on several opportunities that weren't just quite right with plenty of firepower. I guess my point is if you don't fully understand and respect your quarry stick to paper and steel.

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

Got to say it's been an enjoyable read. I have no dog in this fight I shoot a boring 7mmRM. But If I did have a CM (which I dont) it would be a deer and Hog slayer out to my personal max distance of 500 yards. Wouldn't take the CM after elk as long as I had my RM available. But then again with the right bullet and loading in the CM if I came up on an elk unexpectedly at 300 yards and a CM in my hands I would have a lot of meat in my freezer.