408 cheytac

[KonoctisWigwam]

Traditional ranges arent the types of places to shoot guns chambered for those types of cartridges anyway.
You need to be finding places where you can shoot from hillside to hillside, which means when there are no leaves on the trees.
Even the 1000 yd ranges arent adequate enough for them.
Also realize that the traditional loading setups wont work for them either.
He will need a new press like a RCBS Ammo Master, plus custom dies, etc etc in order to load for it.
I spent over $1000 for the loading setup for my 338 Big Baer.
And after about 10 seasons we have killed exactly one deer with it.
You know what?
We could have killed it with a 300 Norma also.

In my area, ELR starts at 2000 and moves to 3000 if more than 1 person hits their target.

Most of the people shooting each month seem to be shooting 375 CheyTac or 408 CheyTac. I'm planning 375 CheyTac for that purpose. I wouldn't use that for hunting though. I think some folks have used 50 BMG.

 

[yobuck]

In my area, ELR starts at 2000 and moves to 3000 if more than 1 person hits their target.

Most of the people shooting each month seem to be shooting 375 CheyTac or 408 CheyTac. I'm planning 375 CheyTac for that purpose. I wouldn't use that for hunting though. I think some folks have used 50 BMG.

Absolutely some have and still are using 50 cals for long range hunting.
Not saying they only use the 50s, but will if the distance situation calls for it.
But all of that sounds more potent than it actually is, because they cant shoot them well enough to hit anything with them.
About a decade ago Mark King was being kept quite busy building custom 50 cals on large Bat actions.
I know several of those he built them for.
But the recoil is such that they cant shoot them well enough to hit anything with them, especially at those distances.
So be thinking about that before jumping on board with any of the large cartridges.
Even with my 338 Big Baer, were using 137 gr of powder with the 300 gr bullet.
And with the gun weighing over 20 pounds its still not exactly a fun thing to shoot.
For many years the same gun was a 30x378 with a 36" barrel, and my load was 112 gr H570 with a 200 gr SMK, which produced about 3500 fps velocity.
And when it became time to rebarrel i made the switch to the 338.
But having my time to do over it would still be a 30x378, with (maybe) a different twist and heavier bullets.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

But all of that sounds more potent than it actually is, because they cant shoot them well enough to hit anything with them.

And that's the kicker...most times it's near impossible to see any splash on the hills as there's a lot of clay in them.

That is with multiple spotters I'm told.

It gets pretty breezy in Lake County, so wind can be a factor also...I've been told I could even take a 6.5 Creedmoor if I wanted to, but don't expect to hit anything. ELR is a CheyTac game, IMO.

Even with my 338 Big Baer, were using 137 gr of powder with the 300 gr bullet.
And with the gun weighing over 20 pounds its still not exactly a fun thing to shoot.

Yeah, I was told that 338 LM will often be able to get on target at 2000, but then they're in no man's land going for 3000.

The 'ol adage applies here...you don't show up to a gun fight with a knife!

 

[yobuck]

And that's the kicker...most times it's near impossible to see any splash on the hills as there's a lot of clay in them.

That is with multiple spotters I'm told.

It gets pretty breezy in Lake County, so wind can be a factor also...I've been told I could even take a 6.5 Creedmoor if I wanted to, but don't expect to hit anything. ELR is a CheyTac game, IMO.


Yeah, I was told that 338 LM will often be able to get on target at 2000, but then they're in no man's land going for 3000.

The 'ol adage applies here...you don't show up to a gun fight with a knife!

Seeing hits is a separate issue, and there are certain conditions that can help and others than can hurt ones ability to do that regardless as to the quality of the optics used.
A couple of inches of snow for example can help, whereas 6 inches or more causes problems.
And of coarse extreme distances make seeing hits more difficult as well regardless of the conditions.
And im referring to people who use their guns for hunting long range, as opposed to those who just shoot at those distances.
In the eastern parts of the country especially, you might not have suitable conditions for hunting the longer distances for an entire season.
Maybe even numerous seasons in a row.
So simply showing up with a large cartridge gun dosent guarantee anything, unless the conditions allow for even using it, let alone hitting something when you do.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

A couple of inches of snow for example can help, whereas 6 inches or more causes problems.

Fortunately, that shouldn't be a problem, but it COULD! I once saw snow on my property a couple years after I bought it.

There is now on Mount Konocti, once or twice a year.

So simply showing up with a large cartridge gun dosent guarantee anything, unless the conditions allow for even using it, let alone hitting something when you do.

I have a bad habit of planning for success, not failure. That Frank dude from Sniper's Hide hit a target with a 224 Valkyrie a few years ago...at 2000 yards. The answers are out there...Anyway, from my view, if you want to play ELR to be the King, you should consider at least a 375 CheyTac. It doesn't guarantee you'll win, but it does guarantee that you will have a better chance of success than you do with a 224 Valkyrie.;)

 

[Taylorbok]

hat Frank dude from Sniper's Hide hit a target with a 224 Valkyrie a few years ago...at 2000 yards.

What size target and how many rounds?
Sounds more like a luck thing, and or shooting in very favorable conditions.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

What size target and how many rounds?
Sounds more like a luck thing, and or shooting in very favorable conditions.

Not sure how many before he turned the camera on, I can't remember...he had a 12" or 18" plate. Even the fact he could hit something with that small of a cartridge impressed me, although his moderating doesn't impress me in the least. ;)

 

[yobuck]

Fortunately, that shouldn't be a problem, but it COULD! I once saw snow on my property a couple years after I bought it.

There is now on Mount Konocti, once or twice a year.


I have a bad habit of planning for success, not failure. That Frank dude from Sniper's Hide hit a target with a 224 Valkyrie a few years ago...at 2000 yards. The answers are out there...Anyway, from my view, if you want to play ELR to be the King, you should consider at least a 375 CheyTac. It doesn't guarantee you'll win, but it does guarantee that you will have a better chance of success than you do with a 224 Valkyrie.;)

Well again, your comparing long range hunting with long range shooting.
When simply shooting, there is the target, its simply a matter of hitting it.
Which of coarse can be very challenging.
On the other hand long range hunting requires finding the target first, which can also be challenging even before the challenge of hitting it.
Conditions as a rule dictate how and where most long range hunters hunt on any particular day.
I would also be willing to say that the geographic area that our camp is located contains a higher percentage of serious long range hunters than any other place in the east, and maybe the entire country.
There are numerous places there where shots of a mile or further wouldnt be an issue.
And no doubt the majority of those hunters know where they are.
Beyond that, you can drive right to some of them with your vehicle.
Yet on most days you will find nobody there.
You know why?
Because the odds of finding a brown deer on brown leaves diminishes as the distance becomes greater.
Regardless as to the quality of the optics being used, and that would be so even on a good day.
Put a few inches of snow on the ground and you will be apt to find more hunters at those type places, but otherwise probably not.
That would be after it stops snowing, but even periodic snow squall conditions make hunting those type places a poor choice.
As for cartridges, realize that we were using cartridges like the 30x378 Wetherby for LR hunting in PA. decades before Wetherby decided to legitimize it. Ditto with the 338x378 and the 6.5x300 WBY and the 7x300 WBY.
So it isnt a question of which came first, LR hunting or the cartridges with which to do it.
Optics are what started it for the most part.
Especially after WW2 when the excellent very large military optics found a new use.

 

[Taylorbok]

@yobuck I don't think he's mentioned if he'll be target shooting or hunting, he mentioned "play around with" which is probably more like he want's it just to brag about. Also you can do both with the same rifle.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

Well again, your comparing long range hunting with long range shooting.

Well, this thread is about a 408 CheyTac. You're spot on, I wouldn't use a CheyTac anything for hunting, unless I didn't have another rifle to use that was more sensible.

For ELR, I won't play unless I have a CheyTac at minimum.

When we get down to it, we pick the rifle for the job at hand, it's nothing more than a tool, just like a lathe or mill, except we use it to hunt. I completely agree with your premise, a target is not an animal, and animals tend to run away when they're fired at. Make those shots count, or start tracking!

 

[Taylorbok]

All that said I do want to see what 390 A-tips will do to a coyote.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

All that said I do want to see what 390 A-tips will do to a coyote.

Me too! Even if I wound it, I wouldn't feel bad about shooting a varmint. I don't need a 390 grain A-Tip, a 125 grain Maximus should do just fine for a test with 6.5 PRC.

 

[yobuck]

Well, this thread is about a 408 CheyTac. You're spot on, I wouldn't use a CheyTac anything for hunting, unless I didn't have another rifle to use that was more sensible.

For ELR, I won't play unless I have a CheyTac at minimum.

When we get down to it, we pick the rifle for the job at hand, it's nothing more than a tool, just like a lathe or mill, except we use it to hunt. I completely agree with your premise, a target is not an animal, and animals tend to run away when they're fired at. Make those shots count, or start tracking!

You have misunderstood what im attempting to say.
I think we can all buy whatever it is that makes us happy, within the law of coarse.
Im just attempting to say that for long range hunting, while the very large cartridges might be needed for the very long shots,
the number of opportunities for using them will be very limited, primarily due to unfavorable conditions.
Which is also why the vast majority of long range hunting kills are under 1000 yds.

 

[Taylorbok]

You have misunderstood what im attempting to say.
I think we can all buy whatever it is that makes us happy, within the law of coarse.
Im just attempting to say that for long range hunting, while the very large cartridges might be needed for the very long shots,
the number of opportunities for using them will be very limited, primarily due to unfavorable conditions.
Which is also why the vast majority of long range hunting kills are under 1000 yds.

I think you are misunderstanding, from what I can infer this rifle is gonna be mainly used for shooting steel.