thatguyshm
Well-Known Member
Meaning? I'd love to lean how it would become more efficent, never quite understood that.
35 Whelen questions
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Meaning? I'd love to lean how it would become more efficent, never quite understood that.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Sharper shoulders help facilitate burning as does a shorter powder column (which would not apply with the Whelen). Less body taper distributes pressure better and reduces thrust on the bolt face. The performance of the A.I., and the Sherman, is gained by capacity, efficiency, and being able to run more pressure in the same brass, so merely comparing capacity is not a true indicater of performance. I will use my own cartridges as a further example. The 6.5 SS is the ballistic equivalent to the 6.5 Sherman, even though they are the same basic design, but the SS holds 4 grains less. The gain in this example is primarily efficiency because of a much shorter powder column in the SS. i.e. powders burn more efficiently when the ignition column is shorter, thusgeeting more bang for your buck, so to speak. I hope this makes sense ....Rich
I had never played with a SHORTMAG other than the WWSM or the 6.5284 if it qualifies.
Then I ran into a 7SAUM.
EFFICIENCY IS REAL!
I always thought "Why build a shortmag when God obviously created Ultramags for a reason".
Well its kinda cool shooting 30 gr LESS powder at the same velocity.
Either I got wayyyyyyyyyy lucky on my barrel or the short, sharp shoulder argument is the real deal.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Bingo!!
I'm shooting 35 WhelenAI with 24" Krieger CM barrel and recoil was replace with a Holland and was build 2010 on a Rem action. I also had it long throated and I'm shooting 225gr AB.
I got bunch of bullets for the Whelen/brass and loaded bunch of dummy rds up and some bullets are less than 1" long so didn't build it to shoot every bullet made for the Whelen. It's been on 2 elk hunts here in Co and one bear hunt and should draw bear tag this year and maybe use it on elk hunt.
Tell you the truth if I decide on not doing the AI I would of build it same way long throated and all and gain is very little. First time I'd been back and forth on doing AI.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The AI is not just for powder capacity. P O Ackley experimented with many cartridges and there design and tried to improve on there performance at the time and with the available powders.
Efficiency was most important to him and his experiments were tailored to increase velocity through design. Some of the things he found was that less case body taper lowered bolt thrust loads and the 40o shoulder was optimum (Less was not as efficient and more gained you nothing except difficulty
in feeding.
Some AIs are more or less efficient than others because of the powders and case shape even with the same case volume. At the time, brass life was not an issue like it is now even though it did improved brass life that was not his goal.
One of the most efficient cases found was the 30/06 based cases. they seem to perform better than they should. An example is the 280 AI, it can meet or exceed the velocities of its big brother, the 7 rem mag with less powder.
like Rich, I base all of my wildcats on the Ackley design principles because they work when correctly applied. even when they are hugely over bored cartridges with the goal of high velocity and low pressures.
So in my opinion, doing an AI is more for total performance than case capacity. It also allows you to load mag length ammo without having to single load or long throat to gain velocity.
As far as I am concerned, you give up nothing and can only gain total Performance.
Just My Opinion
J E CUSTOM
Efficiency was most important to him and his experiments were tailored to increase velocity through design. Some of the things he found was that less case body taper lowered bolt thrust loads and the 40o shoulder was optimum (Less was not as efficient and more gained you nothing except difficulty
in feeding.
Some AIs are more or less efficient than others because of the powders and case shape even with the same case volume. At the time, brass life was not an issue like it is now even though it did improved brass life that was not his goal.
One of the most efficient cases found was the 30/06 based cases. they seem to perform better than they should. An example is the 280 AI, it can meet or exceed the velocities of its big brother, the 7 rem mag with less powder.
like Rich, I base all of my wildcats on the Ackley design principles because they work when correctly applied. even when they are hugely over bored cartridges with the goal of high velocity and low pressures.
So in my opinion, doing an AI is more for total performance than case capacity. It also allows you to load mag length ammo without having to single load or long throat to gain velocity.
As far as I am concerned, you give up nothing and can only gain total Performance.
Just My Opinion
J E CUSTOM
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Amen!
Would any of you make a recommendation for barrel manufacturer in 35 cal? I've done a couple 35's and never achieved the accuracy some have talked about on this thread. A little under moa but not much better. Not trying to hijack, this just seemed like a good place to ask. Thanks
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
There are several good barrel makers out there which should shoot very well. A good barrel is a start, but you also need an action which is true, a stock which is bedded properly, a good smith to put it all together, and a shooter who can utilize what he has. Your reloading techniques, including brass prep, is also a factor.
Some of the barrels that I prefer are all cut rifled and include Krieger, Bartlein and Brux. Make sure that you have the proper twist for the bullets you intend to shoot. If you do all those things, there is no reason you should not have a rifle that shoots 1/2 moa or better. Good Luck!.........Rich
I agree with Rich's comments on the subject, BUT there are fewer bullet choices and no match bullets readily available for the 35, that can be an issue. Smart money would be to neck the Whelen down to 338.
I agree with Rich's comments on the subject, BUT there are fewer bullet choices and no match bullets readily available for the 35, that can be an issue. Smart money would be to neck the Whelen down to 338.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/rifle-brass/338-06
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/rifle-brass/358-norma-mag
Understood about other factors that contribute to overall accuracy. I am very meticulous with all of these. I have several rifles that shoot groups in the .1's and .2's at 100 and hold better than .5 moa to extended ranges. I've just never been able to achieve this with 35 cal.
Agreed, bullet selection is limited but 35 cal projectiles perform better on game at Whelen velocities. 338 bullets for the most part perform better at higher velocities. They seem to be built tougher. Not knocking 338 its a fine caliber and superior in most regards.
I guess what I am asking is: does anyone have a 35 that consistently shoots .5moa or better? And if so: who's barrel did you use?
I ask this because i want to try to duplicate that. Thank you for your thoughts
Agreed, bullet selection is limited but 35 cal projectiles perform better on game at Whelen velocities. 338 bullets for the most part perform better at higher velocities. They seem to be built tougher. Not knocking 338 its a fine caliber and superior in most regards.
I guess what I am asking is: does anyone have a 35 that consistently shoots .5moa or better? And if so: who's barrel did you use?
I ask this because i want to try to duplicate that. Thank you for your thoughts
