338 lapua/300 gr bullets/2800 fps minimum?

[Ombre noire]

Hi,

Working on load development on TRG42/338 lapua mag with H1000 (89 gr), Berger OTM 300. As of now, good results up to 400 yards but didn't stretch it yet; MV is 2680 fps, very little SD.
On the subject, I know a little, there is a lot more I do not know.
I keep on hearing bullets (300 gr) should reach a minimum MV of 2800 fps. Is this correct and if yes, why?
Rifle will be used to shoot up to 1500 yards max.

Thanks for your input.

 

[FAIRCHASE]

2800fps (w/300s) is about as 'fast' as you can safely get to with a 26" barrel.

Compare trajectories (w/Berger 300gr OTM) of 2700 vs 2800 and you will see there isn't a large enough difference to merely chase higher velocity.

With that said and all (e.g. pressure signs, accuracy etc) being equal, I would prefer 2800 to 2700.

 

[alaska]

Suggest RL 33 and you should get your 2800 FPS with the 300 gr MK
RamShot Magnum is the powder Black Hills uses in Norma Brass with 300 MK to get 2800 FPS for the military.

 

[MMERSS]

Hi,

Working on load development on TRG42/338 lapua mag with H1000 (89 gr), Berger OTM 300. As of now, good results up to 400 yards but didn't stretch it yet; MV is 2680 fps, very little SD.
On the subject, I know a little, there is a lot more I do not know.
I keep on hearing bullets (300 gr) should reach a minimum MV of 2800 fps. Is this correct and if yes, why?
Rifle will be used to shoot up to 1500 yards max.

Thanks for your input.

FWIW, my TRG with 91gr H1000 300 Berger will shoot 2700is fps. Tight groups with low SD usually trumps higher MV for my needs. The only sure way to know is to try different loads.

 

[FAIRCHASE]

FWIW, my TRG with 91gr H1000 300 Berger will shoot 2700is fps. Tight groups with low SD ALWAYS trumps higher MV for my needs. The only sure way to know is to try different loads.

Made a slight correction to your post.

Again, compare small (ca. 100) velocity differences through ballistic software when going well beyond 1000 yds and using a high quality B.C. bullet.

 

[Ombre noire]

FWIW, my TRG with 91gr H1000 300 Berger will shoot 2700is fps. Tight groups with low SD usually trumps higher MV for my needs. The only sure way to know is to try different loads.

I did try several but at 100 yards; distances sometimes makes a big difference but so far, so good. Thanks.
Follow up on load
Went to range today, 1000 yards ; cool and sunny, no wind, 50% humidity.
Loads were still accurate at 1000 (less than MOA); will shoot around 1300 next time.

 

[rwest]

Retumbo has had good results with 300 gr smk for me. Getting 2760 with single digit es. Good accuracy and not pushing it to the max

 

[Punisher]

Retumbo is the worst powder on the shelf! Better leave it all there so I can buy it.

 

[alaska]

Just got back from range

29 deg F

92.0 of H1000
2833 FPS
Lapua Brass
300gr Berger Elite
WLRM primer
COAL 3.681"


I believe this will be as far as will I take my AR 30 in Vel with the 300gr Berger's Elite.
Man they shoot good in that AR 30.

 

[rwest]

Retumbo is the worst powder on the shelf! Better leave it all there so I can buy it.

Yeah what was I thinking! Haha

 

[virginiashooter]

Where are you finding Retumbo?

 

[rooster721]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I been under the impression 2800 is where BC testing/proving is done by companies such as Lapua (for their scenars) and is why MV of their loaded-ammo sold is in the 2775/2800 neighbourhood...

That said, if Lapua claims certain performance based off those numbers, as well as life-expectancy in regards to barrel-wear and active duty out of each rifle shooting under these "load" velocities, then 2775-2800 is where a guy should try be.

Lapua designed it to do/work a certain way. I would have to assume there's merit tied to 2800 in regards to that. I have mine loaded for 2775... 28" pipe, and see only the very odd velocity poke into low teens for spreads* There's a node at that velocity. In my own opinion, how hard you have to push a barrel to hit that node is only altered by length.. but generally speaking, the caliber itself should always perform good in that velocity-range... whether a 20" 338 will ever hit that particular node is probably dreaming, so in those-cases a lower node has to be pursued and performance simply accepted for whatever it ends up being Point of the story is, 2800 is likely tied to the design and a general-node in relative barrels by design. And is why we try make 2800 in our rifles too, to make the most of what it's designed to do.

This is my opinion.

 

[Ombre noire]

Another follow up; Today 3/17/15, 0650 h, perfect day, NV desert, barely any wind, same loads, same rifle (see 1st post).
I used my buddy's dope chart and it got me **** close right away.
1460 yards, loads are still good; 3 shots to be on target, then several impacts.
1760 yards, loads are still good; 2 shots to be on target, then several impacts.
Don't get the wrong impression, we hit often but we missed a few times too

2680 fps will still deliver the 300 gr pills accurately at a mile. My buddy Mark was shooting a SAC 338LM loaded with 300 berger OTM, 91.5 gr H1000 and was ringing steel in a consistent manner too; Mark Gordon did a great job on that stick, luckily the TRG was keeping up with it. I believe his pills are close to 2800 fps, as he is using more powder and a longer barrel. An interesting fact was in our elevation; we both had Nightforce scopes, his ATACR x25 (moa/moa), mine NXS x22 (moa/moa), he has a Murphy Precision 45 moa cant rail, mine is a 35 moa badger. So even though he uses more powder, has a longer barrel and has more moa build in the rail, he still needed a bit more elevation than I did; he needed 60 moa elevation (for 1 mile) and I was at 59.75. It is very close but you would think I would need more elevation due to the facts mentioned above. As the day went on and the temps got hotter, we both needed a bit less elevation.
Anyway, all I can think of is that my loads may have more neck tension than his, which would create more pressure but then again, his pills are faster than mine on the chronograph...so if anyone has an explanation, I wouldn't mind hearing it; always curious to learn something.
Another good day in the NV desert; glad this load proved itself accurate up to a mile and long live the 2nd amendment.

 

[orch]

Hey there...
I'd wonder if your scopes don't track the same.... My ballistics app tells me that a 300gr berger @2700fps would need about 5 moa more at a mile than one going 2800 all other variables being equal... Maybe you scope is giving you a small fraction more than 0.25 moa/click and your buddy's scope is giving a small fraction less than 0.25 moa per click... I guess it Doesn't really matter, as long as you are hitting consistently and have your dope verified you're good to go.

you could always run your scopes through a elevation test at 100 yards to verify they are in fact adjusting true .... Just get a big piece of of card board or ply wood (6 or 8 feet tall) at 100 yrds and put an aiming point at the bottom then shoot a group' then crank your elevation knob up 60 moa and shoot another group using the same aiming point measure the distance between the center of the two groups. If your scope clicks are a true 0.25 moa you should get about 62.8" between the centres of yor groups.

Don't think it would be anything to do with your neck tension causing increased pressure, because that would just translate into higher muzzle velocity... Unless of course your chronograph was off you really could be getting 2800... I'm assuming you guys used the same chronograph on the same day to get your speeds...

Other things that could be going on: your buddy's barrel is engraving the bullets more causing slightly more drag on his bullet, new lot of powder or batch of reloads since u chrono'd and you are maybe getting a bit more speed... Can't think of anything else right now... But I'd be most suspicious that it may be tracking of your scope....

Anyways.... Not that it matters, sounds like u guys are having a blast stretching the legs on your 338's! ... Making me a little jealous actually... Ive only got mine out to about 1300 yards...
Orch