338 EDGE @3146 with 300 Berger

[Fiftydriver]

I'm curious about this statement. What is a "case life level"? In my experience, our edges have outperformed std Lapua. Never seen a std lapua outrun an edge by 100fps.
Thanks for all the info above.

the level of firings a case will allow before gas starts leaking around the primer pocket.

not sure what edge brass your using but i have never seen any that i would classify as strong brass. Rem brass is very soft in the case head. Norma is much better quality but not much stronger. Federal is pretty strong but nearly impossible to find on a regular basis. Bertram brass is also pretty soft. I know very well about that, they used to make my brass for some of my wildcats.

i have never seen a RUM case able to take anywhere near the pressure that a lapua case could. Now, this is all dependent on the receiver supporting the case also. I do not use factory receivers anymore for this exact reason, will not support the brass properly. But a properly designed full custom receiver will easily support both and not be the weak link.

my 257, 6.5mm, 270 Allen Magnums were based on the RUM cases for a very long time and i was always looking for the best brass out there. Even my 338 Ultra Maxx was based on the RUM Which is even higher capacity then the Edge and none of that brass was anything close to the strength of the lapua.

that statement is based on using powders such as Retumbo and RL33. Not h1000. I feel thats far to fast in burn rate for this case capacity, even in 338 cal.

if your standard Edge rifles are out performing a standard lapua by much at all, its either because the receiver being used can not support the higher bolt thrust levels generated by the larger diameter lapua case, or the barrel is longer on the edge, or your simply comparing a hot loaded edge to a mildly loaded lapua.....

again, everything equal, they will be basically identical but again, the edge can handle about 65,000 psi for a few firings where as the lapua case will handle 70,000 psi for twice that many firings and that has been the case for well over the past 15 years i have been pumping these hammers out.

now i only use peterson brass and its even better. If peterson would make a rum case, you guys would benefit greatly.

 

[bigngreen]

@Fiftydriver , ADG is the best quality RUM brass right now, in other cases I'm running Lapua and ADG side by side and see very similar capabilities.

 

[Mram10us]

the level of firings a case will allow before gas starts leaking around the primer pocket.

not sure what edge brass your using but i have never seen any that i would classify as strong brass. Rem brass is very soft in the case head. Norma is much better quality but not much stronger. Federal is pretty strong but nearly impossible to find on a regular basis. Bertram brass is also pretty soft. I know very well about that, they used to make my brass for some of my wildcats.

i have never seen a RUM case able to take anywhere near the pressure that a lapua case could. Now, this is all dependent on the receiver supporting the case also. I do not use factory receivers anymore for this exact reason, will not support the brass properly. But a properly designed full custom receiver will easily support both and not be the weak link.

my 257, 6.5mm, 270 Allen Magnums were based on the RUM cases for a very long time and i was always looking for the best brass out there. Even my 338 Ultra Maxx was based on the RUM Which is even higher capacity then the Edge and none of that brass was anything close to the strength of the lapua.

that statement is based on using powders such as Retumbo and RL33. Not h1000. I feel thats far to fast in burn rate for this case capacity, even in 338 cal.

if your standard Edge rifles are out performing a standard lapua by much at all, its either because the receiver being used can not support the higher bolt thrust levels generated by the larger diameter lapua case, or the barrel is longer on the edge, or your simply comparing a hot loaded edge to a mildly loaded lapua.....

again, everything equal, they will be basically identical but again, the edge can handle about 65,000 psi for a few firings where as the lapua case will handle 70,000 psi for twice that many firings and that has been the case for well over the past 15 years i have been pumping these hammers out.

now i only use peterson brass and its even better. If peterson would make a rum case, you guys would benefit greatly.

Great explanation, thanks. Been using Bertram and Norma lately. Rem before that

 

[Wachsmann]

On my rim I was chunking my brass after 6 reloads. I was bumping the shoulder back 2 thousands. I tried some at 7 once and I had a case separation down at the webbing. I now only load them to 5 reloads and chunk. Remington brass.

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

IME loads that fall within SAMMI specs do not loosen primer pockets. I've had no issues with any RUM brass in my 338. Used Remington and was lucky to score 50 Normas on Amazon that somehow ere not censored. 3000 fps with a 300 Berger is plenty for me with no drama.

 

[Wachsmann]

IME loads that fall within SAMMI specs do not loosen primer pockets. I've had no issues with any RUM brass in my 338. Used Remington and was lucky to score 50 Normas on Amazon that somehow ere not censored. 3000 fps with a 300 Berger is plenty for me with no drama.
[/QUOTE]

I have a 300 RUM. I get 3100 out of the 220 ELDX but I think I'm leaning on the brass pretty hard even though I dont have any bolt lift issues. This was also with RL26 but the load did not prove to hold up from one year to the next or should I say the next time I resized the brass. I will be going back to the drawing board on this rifle and try retumbo, H1000, and N570 but I'm also going to slow things down and keep the pressure within the book values. I really need consistency in my reloads from resize to resize and load to load than getting an extra 100 to 150 fps on them. I was so surprised when I had loaded up 50 rounds with the RL26 and seen the numbers and the group. But after I was done with the 50 the next time I resized the brass the groups opened up and the velocity was not as consistent. I may had just hit a sweet spot with the cases and pressure but I'm out of RL 26 and I have plenty of retumbo. I have a little less of H1000 and a pound of N570 to play with. With one of the 3 I should be able to get something shooting again. I hope I can get it done with the retumbo since I have a lot more of it and I'll just say I not inclined to sale any of it. I have a few other rifles that like retumbo or the other powders as well.

 

[Fiftydriver]

IME loads that fall within SAMMI specs do not loosen primer pockets. I've had no issues with any RUM brass in my 338. Used Remington and was lucky to score 50 Normas on Amazon that somehow ere not censored. 3000 fps with a 300 Berger is plenty for me with no drama.

your not loading far over SAMMI specs if your loading to 3000 fps with a 300 gr. Berger In an edge or rum or a standard lapua for that matter. In a 30" barrel, loaded to a standard they would accept which is around 65,000 psi max, you would be closer to 2850-2900 fps max.

 

[Fred3]

I get 300 Berger's going 2800 with 86grians of h1000.
91grains does 2990 but is way to hot and ruins brass. 28" barrel I don't believe the 3150 claims unless it's very much over pressure hinging on dangerous even in a 32" pipe it's hoooootttttt as heck if 300's are over 3k. I'm only speaking from my personal experience with a 1/8t 1/95.t and 1/10t barrels all over or at 28".

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

I guess someone missed that my RUM has a 36", 3 groove Nitrided barrel ---- a very slippery tube. Amazing that one can deduce I am over pressure w/o ever putting a transducer on MY rifle. In 60 years of handloading I have never seen an unsafe load that did NOT result in higher bolt lift. swollen case head and enlarged primer pockets. My Norma cases are on load #8. They were uniformed, never FL sized, have tight pockets and yet to need trimming. Ken Waters never led me astray.

IMHO H-1000 is too fast for the 338 RUM w/heavy bullets. I've tried every magnum powder available. The fastest in MY RUM are (decending) RL33, H869 and Retumbo.

 

[Fred3]

I guess someone missed that my RUM has a 36", 3 groove Nitrided barrel ---- a very slippery tube. Amazing that one can deduce I am over pressure w/o ever putting a transducer on MY rifle. In 60 years of handloading I have never seen an unsafe load that did NOT result in higher bolt lift. swollen case head and enlarged primer pockets. My Norma cases are on load #8. They were uniformed, never FL sized, have tight pockets and yet to need trimming. Ken Waters never led me astray.

IMHO H-1000 is too fast for the 338 RUM w/heavy bullets. I've tried every magnum powder available. The fastest in MY RUM are (decending) RL33, H869 and Retumbo.

Oh cool post your pressure results! Are you using piezo transducer? Or something else I would love to see your data,
I once encountered a 338 barrel that was .0015 large in the bore it gave poor velocity's but it would take with no pressure 101 grains h1000 with out any heavy bolt lift.
Just a hint if you are into heavy bolt lift you were over pressure way before you figured it out. But maybe the unreal result and ++P powder charge is fine in your gun. Congrats that you were unsure enough about your load that you felt it necessary to try and explain your self and assume others comments are directed at you. I'm sure you have a very extensive back ground in ballistics and have the situation under control. You obviously have a very special and unique barrel and I would never want to take that warm fuzzy feeling away from you. HOW EVER I WOULD WARN ANYONE THAT IS BUILDING AN ORDINARY EDGE THAT THE DATA IN THIS THREAD COULD EASILY GET A GUY HURT AND SHOULD BE APPROACHED WITH EXTREME CAUTION!!!

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

All I know is what I have and how it works.
I never said I had a transducer, nor that others would have my experience.
When you have some time this summer, drop me a note. You can come down and shoot my rifle and see for yourself.
BTW real experts, like the late Ken Waters, cautioned that increased bolt lift effort, sloppy primer pockets and case head expansion were (and are) over pressure signs. If you do not have them you're probably okay.
Another suggestion from real experts is that if your handloads exceed the velocities shown for max loads shown in tested loading manuals, you may be approaching dangerous territory. Obviously for the same bullets and bbl lengths.

Perhaps you have something to offer other than childish sarcasm ?

 

[Fred3]

Having spent time with a universal receiver and an oehler 83 set up to test pressure.
I can tell you that your loads are pushing the pressure lines. I also know for a fact that most rifle builders know very little about measured pressure out side of their personal experience that is in no way Scientific or measured with actual pressure instruments.

I appreciate the fact that you think you know but, once you reach the point that you used for pressure indicators you are already over pressure and that's a fact.

If you read the experiences in this thread the 36" barrel is a moot point as you have reach the point of Diminishing return.
I'm not being sarcastic It's just concerning that the data in this thread is HOT. Not all but some of it is just absurdly stupid.
So my point was to warn guys that are looking for edge data that the chances they have a magic rifle are slim and they should start at the start and ignore this +P data.

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

I didn't publish any loads. Think you have me confused with another poster.

I'm not shooting an Edge, rather a RUM.

As far a bbl lengths, my smith has decades of experience with long barrels.

Weatherby has found that an increase of 1" in bbl length yields 30 fps in cartridges in the 3000-3500 fps range and 40 over 3500.

My experience with my 6.5-300 BEE bears this out as my 30" bbl Ruger, I have problems pushing the 127 LRX @3700 fps from a 3 groove Nitrided barrel which is faster than a normal Weatherby barrel.

 

[Fred3]

I didn't publish any loads. Think you have me confused with another poster.

I'm not shooting an Edge, rather a RUM.

As far a bbl lengths, my smith has decades of experience with long barrels.

Weatherby has found that an increase of 1" in bbl length yields 30 fps in cartridges in the 3000-3500 fps range and 40 over 3500.

My experience with my 6.5-300 BEE bears this out as my 30" bbl Ruger, I have problems pushing the 127 LRX @3700 fps from a 3 groove Nitrided barrel which is faster than a normal Weatherby barrel.

I made it clear that you were hoping for all my comments to be directed at you and I was correct, but they are all not. If you must be a whipping boy find someone else to embarrass you. I just want folks looking for data to not feel like they are chasing a slippery 3 grooves velocity, certainly some part of this requires that you must justify yourself.
Like I said and it was the part directed at you is that if you are loosing primer pockets and have heavy bolt lift you passed the sammi pressure way before you figured it out. for fun what load is netting 3000 in a RUM with 300 grain bullets if only for the sake of I told you so.
If you feel safe keep on keeping on as Joe Dirt would say.
My warning was directed at data that is in this thread that's dangerous obviously you feel threatened so you must know why.