Fiftydriver
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I know lots of guys have been wanting to see these results so wanted to get some numbers up on a post.
First off, base line information. Rifle that these loads were tested is a Friend/customers rifle that he was willing to run some test loads through. It is one of my Raptor Stalker Hybrid rifles with 28" Lilja barrel. Standard 1-10 twist
This rifles current preferred load is 99.0 gr of Retumbo under a 300 gr Berger Hybrid seated to 3.866" OAL with an average velocity of 2902 fps. This load is not a red line load as far as pressure goes, just a good top end working load. With this load, just the FAINTEST of ejector ring shadow lines on the case head after firing so this is where I would load the RL33 to to see the same extremely faint, nearly ghost rings on the case head to give a somewhat accurate comparision between pressures of these two loads.
With RL33, knowing that it was a bit slower then Retumbo, I started at the same 99.0 gr charge but seated the bullet 70 thou off the lands just to flatten the pressure spike on the first firing just in case there was a bit more pressure then I was expecting. THERE WAS NOT!!! At 99.0 gr, RL33 produced a very mild 2789 fps velocity.
Worked up from there. Next firing I seated the bullets out to 3.865" which is roughly 10 thou off the lands and increased only 1 grain to 100.0 gr. This produced 2886 fps which I am sure most of which was from seating the bullet closer to the lands. Now I had a safe starting point and would not be surprised by any unexpected pressure spikes.
Here are the results from the entire test. Again, I increased powder charge until just the faintest ejector ring could be spotted on the case head with very close inspection.
100.0 gr......................2886 fps
102.0 gr......................2923 fps Already topped retumbo load in velocity
104.0 gr......................2969 fps
105.0 gr......................3003 fps
106.0 gr......................3036 fps 100% load density
106.0 gr produced the very first hints of an ejector ring so I stopped there. Please keep in mind that the bolt lift was effortless and extraction perfect. This is a very comfortable load but stopped here because it was showing same signs on the case head as the Retumbo load did. I have no doubt that a couple grains more powder would have produced nearly 3100 fps and still had no problem with any primer pocket loosening of any kind but this test was more to find a comparision between retumbo and RL33 in the 338 AX and I believe the results speak for themselves.
it takes 7 grains more powder but RL33 also offers +130 fps more velocity as well as Retumbo. In reality, I have never been wanting for more then Retumbo can produce. Max loads with Retumbo in my 338 AX chambered in my full size Raptor LRSS rifles produces 3000 fps but it would appear that RL33 will easily produce an estimated 3100 fps or slightly more in the Raptor LRSS 30" barrel length with conventional throat.
To that point. Again, the throat length in this test rifle is not terribly long but todays standards. As an example, with the 106.0 gr load, which was 100% load density with the 3.865" OAL seating length, I seated a bullet to 4.050" OAL and showed the customer how much added case capacity can be had just by cutting the throat an extra 0.185" deeper. The increase is significant and would easily allow 110 grains capacity with this powder and judging by the pressures produces with these test loads, I am sure that 110 gr would be plenty safe and comfortable pressure wise with a throat cut to allow a 4.050" OAL.
I would estimate that even in this relatively short barrel length of 28", with a 4.050" throat, that we would see 3100 fps pretty easily.
All this out of a Lilja barrel which are amazing for accuracy but its no secret that they tend to run a bit on the slower side of average compared to the cut rifled barrels out there. Still, they show up pretty much without a need for barrel break in right out of the box and are great shooting barrels so that's why I use them so much. There is more easy velocity to be had with other barrels but to me, just not all that important to get another 30 fps when I have such a good working relationship with Dan and his crew.
All in all, very impressed with RL33 in the 338 Allen Xpress. Looking a the load data and seeing that we hit our pressure goals right at 100% load density, that tells me that this powder may be at least as good or even better with bullet weights in the 250 to 265 gr range as well. In this rifle however, looks like a solid 130 fps over Retumbo with what appears to be identical chamber pressures.
I have heard claims of 150 to up to 300 fps more velocity using this powder over other older powders. I was not expecting that over Retumbo. Magic just does not happen when internal ballistics is concerned, however, getting an extra +100 fps just with a simple powder change is most impressive.
More external ballistic testing needs to be done but so far very impressed. Looks like a had powder to beat.
I also believe that as good as RL33 is with the 338 Allen Xpress, it may be even better in my 300 Allen Xpress with the 230 and 240 gr bullet weights. May also be great in my 7mm Allen Magnum with 160-175 and 180 gr bullets. All will be tested soon.
So far, very impressed. One thing I like a lot about this powder is its small granular size. No larger then Retumbo, in fact it seems even smaller in diameter and possibly even a bit shorter in length. MUCH smaller then RL50, H-50BMG and dramatically smaller then the VV 500 series powders. I like that for flow characteristics with smaller caliber wildcats (7mm Allen Magnum) and for higher load densities.
More to come but so far definitely a winner in the 338 AX.
First off, base line information. Rifle that these loads were tested is a Friend/customers rifle that he was willing to run some test loads through. It is one of my Raptor Stalker Hybrid rifles with 28" Lilja barrel. Standard 1-10 twist
This rifles current preferred load is 99.0 gr of Retumbo under a 300 gr Berger Hybrid seated to 3.866" OAL with an average velocity of 2902 fps. This load is not a red line load as far as pressure goes, just a good top end working load. With this load, just the FAINTEST of ejector ring shadow lines on the case head after firing so this is where I would load the RL33 to to see the same extremely faint, nearly ghost rings on the case head to give a somewhat accurate comparision between pressures of these two loads.
With RL33, knowing that it was a bit slower then Retumbo, I started at the same 99.0 gr charge but seated the bullet 70 thou off the lands just to flatten the pressure spike on the first firing just in case there was a bit more pressure then I was expecting. THERE WAS NOT!!! At 99.0 gr, RL33 produced a very mild 2789 fps velocity.
Worked up from there. Next firing I seated the bullets out to 3.865" which is roughly 10 thou off the lands and increased only 1 grain to 100.0 gr. This produced 2886 fps which I am sure most of which was from seating the bullet closer to the lands. Now I had a safe starting point and would not be surprised by any unexpected pressure spikes.
Here are the results from the entire test. Again, I increased powder charge until just the faintest ejector ring could be spotted on the case head with very close inspection.
100.0 gr......................2886 fps
102.0 gr......................2923 fps Already topped retumbo load in velocity
104.0 gr......................2969 fps
105.0 gr......................3003 fps
106.0 gr......................3036 fps 100% load density
106.0 gr produced the very first hints of an ejector ring so I stopped there. Please keep in mind that the bolt lift was effortless and extraction perfect. This is a very comfortable load but stopped here because it was showing same signs on the case head as the Retumbo load did. I have no doubt that a couple grains more powder would have produced nearly 3100 fps and still had no problem with any primer pocket loosening of any kind but this test was more to find a comparision between retumbo and RL33 in the 338 AX and I believe the results speak for themselves.
it takes 7 grains more powder but RL33 also offers +130 fps more velocity as well as Retumbo. In reality, I have never been wanting for more then Retumbo can produce. Max loads with Retumbo in my 338 AX chambered in my full size Raptor LRSS rifles produces 3000 fps but it would appear that RL33 will easily produce an estimated 3100 fps or slightly more in the Raptor LRSS 30" barrel length with conventional throat.
To that point. Again, the throat length in this test rifle is not terribly long but todays standards. As an example, with the 106.0 gr load, which was 100% load density with the 3.865" OAL seating length, I seated a bullet to 4.050" OAL and showed the customer how much added case capacity can be had just by cutting the throat an extra 0.185" deeper. The increase is significant and would easily allow 110 grains capacity with this powder and judging by the pressures produces with these test loads, I am sure that 110 gr would be plenty safe and comfortable pressure wise with a throat cut to allow a 4.050" OAL.
I would estimate that even in this relatively short barrel length of 28", with a 4.050" throat, that we would see 3100 fps pretty easily.
All this out of a Lilja barrel which are amazing for accuracy but its no secret that they tend to run a bit on the slower side of average compared to the cut rifled barrels out there. Still, they show up pretty much without a need for barrel break in right out of the box and are great shooting barrels so that's why I use them so much. There is more easy velocity to be had with other barrels but to me, just not all that important to get another 30 fps when I have such a good working relationship with Dan and his crew.
All in all, very impressed with RL33 in the 338 Allen Xpress. Looking a the load data and seeing that we hit our pressure goals right at 100% load density, that tells me that this powder may be at least as good or even better with bullet weights in the 250 to 265 gr range as well. In this rifle however, looks like a solid 130 fps over Retumbo with what appears to be identical chamber pressures.
I have heard claims of 150 to up to 300 fps more velocity using this powder over other older powders. I was not expecting that over Retumbo. Magic just does not happen when internal ballistics is concerned, however, getting an extra +100 fps just with a simple powder change is most impressive.
More external ballistic testing needs to be done but so far very impressed. Looks like a had powder to beat.
I also believe that as good as RL33 is with the 338 Allen Xpress, it may be even better in my 300 Allen Xpress with the 230 and 240 gr bullet weights. May also be great in my 7mm Allen Magnum with 160-175 and 180 gr bullets. All will be tested soon.
So far, very impressed. One thing I like a lot about this powder is its small granular size. No larger then Retumbo, in fact it seems even smaller in diameter and possibly even a bit shorter in length. MUCH smaller then RL50, H-50BMG and dramatically smaller then the VV 500 series powders. I like that for flow characteristics with smaller caliber wildcats (7mm Allen Magnum) and for higher load densities.
More to come but so far definitely a winner in the 338 AX.
