300 win mag 210 vld h1000 dissappointing drop results

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by discovery155, May 3, 2014.

  1. discovery155

    discovery155 New Member

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    I have just got my Remington Sendero back which I had re barrelled into 300 win mag, with the same contour barrell fluted at 27.5'' plus 5 side port brake 29.5 oval weighing in at 12.5lbs topped with a nightforce 5.5-22x56mm 20moa nf rail and karsten cheek rest.

    After testing, I seattled on 77g of H1000 210 bergers vlds in Norma brass with Winchester primers at 3.441 oval,
    This seems a popular load on the forums as well, they are reporting velocity's of 2900 fps from 26'' barrells.

    The rifle shoots really nice with zero kick. Once I was happy with my zero at 100 yards, I moved back to 400y, drop was 33'' on the tape with it still zeroed at 100, after some playing around, 7.75 moa was my dope, which is 2560 fps on shooter app, I moved back to 500 dialled my scope to 11.25 moa as the ballistic programe says and it shoots spot on. I am happy with the way it is shooting it just seems VERY VERY slow for a 300 win mag.

    Have any other 210vld 300wm shooters had the same sort of drops?
     
  2. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any 300 information for you. But am curious.

    Did you chronograph it? It would be interesting to find out that you were getting 2900 fps but the bullet at distance performs like 2560 fps. That would mean it would have quite a bit of instability lowering the BC.


    I used the JBM program with zero elevation 59 degrees and 50% humidity with 2560 fps. Your comeups pretty much match what I got for 400 and 500 yds. What is your elevation and related conditions?


    You said you were happy with its performance. Did it shoot good groups?
     
  3. discovery155

    discovery155 New Member

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    I didn't chronograph it, I was going to rent one for the weekend but didn't in the end, groups where tight, 3 and 4 shot groups, all rounds would be touching and with mainly 2 holes visible, 400 yards within 3 inches, wind was blowing around 10mph and lot of heat haze off the ground, but height was spot on for all distance shots

    conditions taken from kestrel, 815m , 1010 hpa 19C degress which is 66 f and 60% humidity

    I also had the NF program to check the drop with as well as the shooter app,

    the bullet holes were perfectly formed in the 20mm ply I was shooting at, not sure if they were unstable if that would show up.
     
  4. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting. Hope others add to the discussion.
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I have set up many 300 win mags with 210 Bergers and H-1000. In a 28" with 77 gr load and a Fed 215 in RP , Norma, WW , Lapua brass you should be right at either side of 2900 fps. The .631 G1 BC is good to go for the 210 VLD too.

    It seems something is wrong. At first I would have suggested improper input into the app but if you say two yielded the same results, then it is time to get the rifle across a quality chronograph and see. I recommend a Magneto speed or an Oehler if you can get ahold of one. Some less expensive chronographs could result in even muddier water.

    Jeff
     
  6. TXshooter

    TXshooter Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see your chrono results my sendero 300 win mag with 76 grains and a 215 is shooting 2829. And the way the speed was coming up I think I would still be shy 2900 fps but barely at 77 gr. but with the slightly smaller 210 I think you should clear the 2900 and at 400 yds I'm getting 4.6 MOA. And at 500 yds it is 7.3 Something is definitely weird if there is that much difference in MOA between yours and mine
     
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    One other point to consider is I have noticed a pattern while shooting in a boiling mirage. It seems my shots go low on these days in a hard boil. The last time I did this it was a full moa low at 1000. The next day no mirage and the same dope on the same target was dead nutz.

    Jeff
     
  8. Truc

    Truc Well-Known Member

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    I'm shooting 75.5gr Retumbo in my 300 Win Mag w/ 210 Bergers and Fed 215 primers, I'm getting 2910fps very accurately. I have not run it out past 125 yds just for the fact I've been too busy working to run to the range. I'm using a Magneto V2 Chrony. My app says at this speed my drop from 100 yds is just under 25" or 5.9MOA. My barrel is 28+" w/ a brake and loaded at 3.42" OAL and also using Norma brass.
    When shooting point blank competition boiling mirage seem to make shots go high for me. I guess it's a matter of when you touch the trigger though. Something is wrong because my app says at 400 yds the speed is 2377fps. My app is the free Iphone BulletDrop which is G1.
     
  9. dana bodnar

    dana bodnar Well-Known Member

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    Try working up a load with 178-g or 208-g hornaday A-Max,I have a nice load made up on the 178 A-max and re-loader 22 that's performs nice groups out to 1000 yards.Currently I'm almost done on load development for 208- g A-max with IMR-4350 and it looks really good and has faster speeds past 700 yards and even tighter groups at long range. I always like berger's but some rifles just don't like them plain and simple. My savage model 111 LRH in 300 win-mag will not shoot them at all. So I'm saying don't force the issue try another load, hopefully this information will help.gun)
     
  10. MMERSS

    MMERSS Well-Known Member

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    Try to borrow “any” chronograph, better preferred but take what you can get. You are trying to isolate a velocity delta of 300 fps (2900- 2560). For the most part any chronograph working and recording properly will provide you with an indication if your velocity is closer to 2900 than 2600. As stated, a borrowed chronograph is a good place to start. Confirm what you currently have then isolate, change or keep from there.
     
  11. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    It's not unheard of to have a rifle drop a couple of hundred fps from one bbl. of the same length to another. I've seen it over my Oehler a few times. Usually a propellant or primer switch will get you to something the bbl. performs a bit better with.
    I've got one of my rifles doing this to me at present shooting 200 fps less than the last rifle I had in the cal with the same batch of ammo (unfortunately I have 400 rounds loaded so I'll be slow for a while). That said, 300+ fps short is a lot and I'd guess something else is awry also.
     
  12. discovery155

    discovery155 New Member

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    I will test again next weekend with a chronograph.

    I was shooting with a 1 Min wait between shots, so I wasn't getting the barrel too hot, but on the test day in question, the heat haze was very high, I am thinking this could of put my aim point high through the scope at 400 yards to get my drop in inches as my start point which then carried on giving me false readings.
    Just changing my speed to 2900 say in shooter app puts 400 yards dropping 23.1 and I measured 33'' is a 10'' high mirage possible on x22 power at that range?

    I also came across this:

    The same thing happens to the image of the target when you are shooting through a mirage. On hot days, you will have to deal with this effect. Not only will it blur the image you see through the scope, which forces you to lower the magnification, it alters the target image, moving it upward, throwing off your aim. Another issue with the mirage effect is that, airwaves don’t always rise straight upward. Sometimes, they’re also “bent” by the wind. In that case, the image of the target will not only migrate upward, but also in the direction the wind is blowing.

    The amount of error due to mirage depends on how strong the mirage is, and on the wind speed. It is generally between ¼ inch and 1 ½in at 100m, and 2 ½in and 15in at 1000yds.

    Long Range Shooting: External Ballistics - Light Effects | The Arms Guide

    I am not sure if heat haze is higher on humid days, but the haze was high. Tests at 100 yards were excellent and for a 300 win mag to be shooting at 308 fps sounds to crazy,

    I will update with my findings.

    Thanks for your input.