30 Nosler vs 300WM vs 300PRC

[nksmfamjp]

Pretty much and apples to oranges comparison there as almost all of those new technologies covered by forced induction could in theory be applied to the older bigger engines to make equal gains in horsepower and efficiency. That they haven't due to cost and customer demand doesn't mean they can't.

It's been proven time and again that the 300 Win set up with a long coal, proper twist and proper throat can do anything a prc can and will do it within probably 50 fps of the PRC.

And it's absolutely asinine to me that people are advocating the 300 Sherman being run at 30 Nosler and even 300 Norma speeds despite several grains less powder capacity.

The Sherman line is well known to be slightly modified PRC cases that to get the claimed velocities have to be operating at a pressure above the levels at which professional engineers and ballistic technicians designed it to run safely. Sure every case has a margin of safety built into its pressure spec but blindly operating within that range with no clear idea of where you are at is potentially dangerous.

And to advocate others doing the same in the absence of solid pressure testing is irresponsible in my eyes as a new reloader that only knows the classic pressure signs is going to be way over safe pressure by the time ADG or Lapua brass shows an extractor mark or swipe.

You seem to have a real handle on all this….can you explain how when loaded to the same pressure signs as the PRC or Nosler, that 30 SM is unsafe?
How does pressure test data from a test barrel and test action relate to the load development reloaders are doing on actual rifles?

 

[kaseyfied]

You seem to have a real handle on all this….can you explain how when loaded to the same pressure signs as the PRC or Nosler, that 30 SM is unsafe?
How does pressure test data from a test barrel and test action relate to the load development reloaders are doing on actual rifles?

The data he publishes are not test barrels.... or test actions.. they are actual rifles.. minus maybe one or two that rich uses whe doing some dats himself. The sherman wildcat data is ,from what i see, made to look like it reloading book. Compiled loads that have been verified from what has been said and made to help people know a starting or potention velocity with a powder, bullet combo.Thats where i feel like some of the frustrations are stemming. My two cents

Kasey

 

[MallardAddict]

You seem to have a real handle on all this….can you explain how when loaded to the same pressure signs as the PRC or Nosler, that 30 SM is unsafe?
How does pressure test data from a test barrel and test action relate to the load development reloaders are doing on actual rifles?

Due to being saami cartridges the PRC and Nosler both had actual pressure test data completed prior to being saami approved or publishing of load data.

Most loads you will see posted in online forums for the PRC or Nosler are rarely more then a few grains above book max if that which is likely well within the variation from barrel to barrel and differnt throats etc so shooters working up loads have a scientifically proven safe base to work from

With the Sherman rounds there has been no pressure testing completed so it's honestly anyones guess as to what pressures are being created or if they are in all actuality safe loads that are being repeatedly posted online. More then once Sherman loads that have been posted here have been shown to be pushing 70k + via QL which is the next best estimator in the absence of a pressure trace.

It's well established that ADG and Lapua brass hide pressures well so the classic brass indications may in fact not be good indicators of a safe working pressure.

That's my .02, like I've repeatedly said I like a lot of things about the Sherman rounds but I am leery of the pressures being created with some of these loads that get posted as "safe data" and creating essentially an online loading manual here despite no one knowing the actual pressures being created.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Most loads you will see posted in online forums for the PRC or Nosler are rarely more then a few grains above book max if that which is likely well within the variation from barrel to barrel and differnt throats etc so shooters working up loads have a scientifically proven safe base to work from

So just to clarify you are saying loads posted over book max with different bullets, condition, different equipment are safe because some version of that load was tested? To add, those shooters are most often using ADG, Peterson or Lapua brass.

With the Sherman rounds there has been no pressure testing completed so it's honestly anyones guess as to what pressures are being created or if they are in all actuality safe loads that are being repeatedly posted online. More then once Sherman loads that have been posted here have been shown to be pushing 70k + via QL which is the next best estimator in the absence of a pressure trace.

I agree that I have not pressure tested my Sherman. So I don't know about what would happen if you made a pressure test barrel, pressure test action, pressure test jig and tested it….or hell jus glued a strain gage on my rifle and shot it. Have you ever used this equipment before? What were your results? Are you putting bad numbers in QL? Can you show us your QL inputs and outputs to show all these dangerous loads Rich has posted?

It's well established that ADG and Lapua brass hide pressures well so the classic brass indications may in fact not be good indicators of a safe working pressure.

Huh! It is weird that ADG and Lapua don't mention this. I have read that loads may need adjusted down. Can you share some test data on this?

How do I hide the pressure shown at the primer?

 

[MallardAddict]

So just to clarify you are saying loads posted over book max with different bullets, condition, different equipment are safe because some version of that load was tested? To add, those shooters are most often using ADG, Peterson or Lapua brass.


I agree that I have not pressure tested my Sherman. So I don't know about what would happen if you made a pressure test barrel, pressure test action, pressure test jig and tested it….or hell jus glued a strain gage on my rifle and shot it. Have you ever used this equipment before? What were your results? Are you putting bad numbers in QL? Can you show us your QL inputs and outputs to show all these dangerous loads Rich has posted?



Huh! It is weird that ADG and Lapua don't mention this. I have read that loads may need adjusted down. Can you share some test data on this?

How do I hide the pressure shown at the primer?

I should have known better then to answer your question sincerely as you clearly just want to be an A-hole and have a ****ing match. Go back to your idol, I'm done responding here.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I should have known better then to answer your question sincerely as you clearly just want to be an A-hole and have a ****ing match. Go back to your idol, I'm done responding here.

I'm really interest in hearing you out, if you actually have something to say.

You see, LRH is a little different. These folks actually do what they are talking about. By doing they form opinions based on actual results and experience.

When you get asked what backs up your opinion, there is no reason to attack fellow board members… You can just show us your pressure testing experience.

Instead of rebuking this post, I would suggest you spend that time going out in the actual field, shooting your actual rifle, doing some actual load development or just figuring out where to hunt next year. Enjoy your actual experience.

 

[adam32+P]

I'm really interest in hearing you out, if you actually have something to say.

You see, LRH is a little different. These folks actually do what they are talking about. By doing they form opinions based on actual results and experience.

When you get asked what backs up your opinion, there is no reason to attack fellow board members… You can just show us your pressure testing experience.

Instead of rebuking this post, I would suggest you spend that time going out in the actual field, shooting your actual rifle, doing some actual load development or just figuring out where to hunt next year. Enjoy your actual experience.

Well...you are running a 180gr at the same speed that Rich claims he can run a 245gr at...so either you are way under pressure or he is way over?

 

[kaseyfied]

I'm really interest in hearing you out, if you actually have something to say.

You see, LRH is a little different. These folks actually do what they are talking about. By doing they form opinions based on actual results and experience.

When you get asked what backs up your opinion, there is no reason to attack fellow board members… You can just show us your pressure testing experience.

Instead of rebuking this post, I would suggest you spend that time going out in the actual field, shooting your actual rifle, doing some actual load development or just figuring out where to hunt next year. Enjoy your actual experience.

Bet hes killed bigger bulls than you from the highway ofcourse with a pistol so he doesnt actually have to do load work.. or looknfor a place to actually hunt....

Kasey

 

[adam32+P]

Bet hes killed bigger bulls than you from the highway ofcourse with a pistol so he doesnt actually have to do load work.. or looknfor a place to actually hunt....

Kasey

Nah, he doesn't even use a pistol...he just wrestles them to the ground and snaps their neck.

 

[kaseyfied]

Nah, he doesn't even use a pistol...he just wrestles them to the ground and snaps their neck.

True.. or a speer . That doesnt required Actually doing anything.. lets not get too carried away since you dont really know much about mallardAddict.... this is the internet though i guess.. boht time to shut this thread down.. the comments toward people are getting a little ridiculous

Kasey

 

[Arthur Stank]

Have had 7mm Rem and 7mm Ultra mags and was glad to view this discussion. Always interesting to get as many open ions as possible before making "The Move".

 

[akmtnhnt]

Due to being saami cartridges the PRC and Nosler both had actual pressure test data completed prior to being saami approved or publishing of load data.

Most loads you will see posted in online forums for the PRC or Nosler are rarely more then a few grains above book max if that which is likely well within the variation from barrel to barrel and differnt throats etc so shooters working up loads have a scientifically proven safe base to work from

With the Sherman rounds there has been no pressure testing completed so it's honestly anyones guess as to what pressures are being created or if they are in all actuality safe loads that are being repeatedly posted online. More then once Sherman loads that have been posted here have been shown to be pushing 70k + via QL which is the next best estimator in the absence of a pressure trace.

It's well established that ADG and Lapua brass hide pressures well so the classic brass indications may in fact not be good indicators of a safe working pressure.

That's my .02, like I've repeatedly said I like a lot of things about the Sherman rounds but I am leery of the pressures being created with some of these loads that get posted as "safe data" and creating essentially an online loading manual here despite no one knowing the actual pressures being created.

I know I'd like to see the quickload data.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Well...you are running a 180gr at the same speed that Rich claims he can run a 245gr at...so either you are way under pressure or he is way over?

I'm shooting the 300 Sherman. This thread is about the 30 Sherman Magnum.

lets not get too carried away since you dont really know much about mallardAddict.... this is the internet though i guess.. boht time to shut this thread down.

Agree. I possibly went too far, but I really need to hear about what people are actually doing and learning. Sharing an opinion on someone elses opinion isn't helping these threads. I'm just asking he share what he is really doing, what he really knows.

 

[FEENIX]

I'm shooting the 300 Sherman. This thread is about the 30 Sherman Magnum.

I shoot a .30 Gibbs, which is similar to yours. I am currently propelling the 190 Berger VLD at 2806 with RL-17 out of 24" with more room to spare. This thread is actually about 30 Nosler vs. 300WM vs. 300PRC.