30-28 Nosler Wildcat

[BoatTail]

I received my custom 30-28 Nosler Wildcat yesterday with a fluted 26" Rock Creek #4 Barrel on a trued Remington 700 action and McMillan Hunter Edge Stock. The 30-28 Nosler is basically the 28 Nosler necked up to 30 Caliber. Similar to the 30 Nosler it holds a few more grains of powder.

Today was the first load development day using Reloader 26, 200gr Hornady ELD-X bullets and I had an anomaly. Using QuickLoad, I normally back off 3 or 4 grains lower that max pressure and then load up to and 0.5 to 1 grain over max. I then watch for pressure signs and stop when they look excessive.

In this case the 30-28 Nosler in QL showed that 82.5 grs of RL 26 was just inside the pressure curve. Shown in the chart and picture below I loaded in 1 gr increments from 80.5 to 83.5. I think I meant to stop at 83 but made an error and continued the one gr increments to 83.5.

As can be seen, pressure signs on the primer and case heads seem fine until the 83.5 round. After firing this round the velocity was of course too high and looking at the case knew I had gone too far. The the primer was flattened and the firing pin penetrated the primer and produced a hole.

What is strange is there wasn't any black smoke smudges around the hole made in the primer but the sear on my Jewell Trigger seems to have been effected. In essence the rifle will not cock now or the sear will not engage.

I have never seen a primer firing pin penetration before and will have to take my rifle to the gunsmith for repair. Anyone else seen this?

Bruce

 

[Predator 22]

What's the deal with the rum brass?

 

[can1010]

where did you get the rem. ultra mag brass did you shorten it ? I will bet that there is a big case capacity difference. I have a wildcat that I can make from any of the ultra mag brass. rem to nosler will have about 2.0 grain difference that is why you over pressured

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I've only had my 308/26-Nosler aka, 30/26-Nosler, 30/28-Nosler for a couple years.

LOL Likely, longer than anyone else. A few hundred rounds of testing. However I have a very accurate QL model of my load data.

I see from your photo that you have a mixed lot of brass. In any reloading and load development scenario this is not recommended. For the exact reason your picture demonstrates. Odd results.

I would wager, if you measured the H2O in the cases formed from 7mm RUM vs the case formed from 28-Nosler there would be several grains less capacity in the 28-Nosler.

Or

That could be a bunch of hoowie.

No, seriously. Mixed brass in a load development setup is dangerous. I used a "Pressure Trace II" system during my load work. I know for my rifles exactly where danger occurs. You have reached that point.

Measuring the H2O is easy. Put the case on the scale. Turn it on. Fill it with water. Do one of the 7mm RUMs and the 30/28-Nosler. That will tell you if your firing pin spring is too strong or if you are flirting with a visit to the hospital.

PM me if you want to talk about it on the phone.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I was looking at your numbers in QL.

I'd really like to know your case volume in H2O.

If I change my case capacity to 101 grains, my model shows exactly your velocity, my pressure is much lower.

From that, I looked really close at your picture. That is a very clean hole. Almost like the brass sealed around the firing pin with no other gas leakage.

What brand of primer are you using?

 

[BoatTail]

You guys were right. First off mistake for mixing cases. I used the RUM cases because the Nosler cases are so expensive and the Remington cases are cheaper and seem to not be as soft as the Nosler cases. I had Hornady make me some reforming dies to convert Ultra Mag Brass to 28 Nosler. For this application I skip the last forming die and use my 30-28 Nosler forming die instead.

Case capacity of the two are also different. The Nosler case holds 99.5 grs of H20 and the Remington Ultra Mag case hold 101.5. I will be using the Remington Ultra Mag cases going forward.

The primer I use is as CCI 250. The theory of the firing pin perfect seal make sense as their was no smoke discoloration in at the penetration point.

jfseaman, I decided to go with the 30-28 Nosler over the 30 Nosler because of some of your posts. I did ordered both a custom version of the 30 Nosler Reamer and standard set of dies and a custom 30-28 Nosler Reamer and Dies. After a lot of calculations and thought decided to go with the 30-28 Nosler as I felt it would give me a slight edge over the 30 Nosler. I wanted to reach/exceed 3100 fps with a 200 gr bullet safely and it looks like I have achieved it with the Ultra Case, 200 gr Hornady ELD-X bullet and 82.5 grs of RL 26.

After I get my Sear fixed I will be testing Retumbo powder but I'm not hopeful. What's interesting is QL show RL 26 as the ideal powder for the 30-28 Nosler. RL 25 seems to be similar to RL 26. With 87 grs of Retumbo I'm in a compressed load situation and a QL predicted pressure of 57003 psi, well below the SAAMI pressure of the Nosler cartridges. Velocity is QL predicted at 3023, well below the predicted and achieved max of RL 26.

Thanks for your comments and help.

Bruce

 

[BoatTail]

By the way, my thoughts are that the pressure/firing pin/primer hole issues is not related to the Sear issue. This rifle is a thumper and think the recoil may have had something to do with the Sear issue. Guess I will find out when I take it back to the Gunsmith that built it. He also missed doing the Gun-Kote so will have him complete that work as well. (I don't think is was his fault, I think the clerk that wrote the ticket missed it and I didn't check her writing)

Bruce

 

[Deleted member 46119]

When I put 101.5 into my model I'm very close to you.

99.5 over pressure.

Good luck.

 

[can1010]

having a 2.0 grain capacity difference is what I was seeing. if your forming your brass look into the 338 rum brass by Bertram at graf and sons. it is bulk brass so you might get some with a hsm headstamp but it is still made by Bertram. this stuff is a tank compared to nosler and case capacity is same as rem. and cheaper

 

[Ua26fitter]

Bspooly,
Have you done any more work with this rifle? I'm very curious how it's doing? I'm just starting on the same build and am thinking about forming my own brass from 300 RUM. I would be interested in any load info you would be willing to share.
I'm using a 26" Lilja barrel and a Remington 700 action. The plan is to build it as a switch barrel and add a 27 and 33 later and use the same case for all.

I've been searching around and not able to find the 300 RUM Bertram brass. I do have a good source for Remington at a great price.

Kris

 

[BoatTail]

Kris,

The last load work I did was with reformed Norma 300 Ultra mag brass. As I remember it holds about the same amount of water as a resized 28 Nosler, and 2 grs less than Remington brass in 300 Ultra Mag. I believe the Nosler brass is made by Norma as well but I'm not getting Plunger and Extractor marks on my Norma brass as I did on the Nosler at max (or just above) loads. (experiences from my 28 Nosler load development). This could just be the powder differences though.

Why Norma brass? Because I hosed all my Remington brass by forming and trimming it to 30 Nosler when I thought I was going that direction. When I decided instead on the 30-28 Nosler, all I could find was Norma brass to resize. It's also much cheaper than Nosler brass.

I tried Retumbo and RL33 and could not get enough powder in the case to reach max pressures and velocity. Instead I went to RL26 based on Quickload app calculations that and it seems to be the best for this round.

Quickload shows with a Hornady 200 ELD-X bullet, 82.5 grs of RL26 and a cartridge length of a 3.490" (my 30-28 has a longer throat) it posts a max velocity of 3090.

In my rifle with a 26" barrel I'm getting 3178 fps with the Hornady 200 ELD-X bullet, 82.5 grs of RL26 combination . I can't explain the 90 fps difference with Quickload. It was, for the most part, right on with my 28 Nosler.

However I'm on the edge of sticky cases with the 82.5 gr RL26 load with this rifle. At 83grs every case sticks. Primers don't look much different from 80grs loads to those with 82.5. By the way the 83gr load produced 3211fps in my rifle but that doesn't help with sticky cases.

Just as a comparison the Nosler manual shows the 30 Nosler with a 200 gr ABLRs and 78grs of R26 reaching 3023fps.

My plan is to back off 2 or 3 grs from the 82.5 gr load to see if I can get around 3130 fps without any chance of sticky cases.

I do believe with resized Remington 300 Ultra Mag Brass I would not see the excessive pressure and might be able to add a grain or two and achieve 3200 fps safely.

That will have to wait though. Its cold and wet in Denver and I'm sending my bolt out to be fluted and have a hunter knob installed.

Hope this helps.

Bruce

 

[Ua26fitter]

Wow. Thanks for that info. I'm looking at summer before The rifle is ready. This gives me something to start with.
A couple follow up questions. By 200 ABLR did you mean 210 ABLR or are they making a 200 in the LR now. I'm planning too build for the 210 ABLR and if I can see 3100 with those bullets I'll be tickled.
Have you got any idea in FPS difference betweeen the 30-28 vs the 30?
It sounds like I need to stock up on the Remington 300 Rum brass that my smith offered me at a great price. He onlky sells to people who have him build a gun. He's got a big pile of it.

Thanks for the help

Kris

 

[BoatTail]

Kris

You are right load I gave in my previous thread for comparison from the Nosler manual was for 200gr Accubond and Partition and not the ABLR.

The Nosler manual shows the 210 gr ABLR in 30 Nosler with 79grs of RL26 reaching 3017fps.

I would run your load through my Quickload software but I don't have a 210 ABLR bullet programed in.

With the 30-28 Nosler you should be able to get close to or possibly reach 3100fps. Just watch your pressure signs.

If you can get Remington brand 300 Ultra Mag I would use it instead of Nosler or Norma. It is a harder case and holds more H20 thus will have lower pressures and allow more powder to reach a higher velocity.

By the way I ordered a 4 die reforming die set from Hornady to reform 300 Ultra mag brass. If you don't have one you will need it. You will have to send Hornady your cartridge print and a couple parent cases. They work well and I use them for both my 28 Nosler and 30-28 Nosler. Built for the 28 Nosler I just substitute my last 28 Nosler reforming die with my 30-28 Nosler sizing die that Hornady also built for me.

Good Luck!

Bruce

 

[Ua26fitter]

Good to know. Thanks for the pointer on the dies.
I'll be calling my smith this week and can him to help me with ordering those dies.

Kris