Made some range time today and just thought I would put some of my findings out there for these newer powders. I was mostly concerned about finding my max pressure/velocity today and here is what I came up with. These were shot at 200 yards and 15 feet from the chrono (shooting chrony) to muzzle. I was running a 24" barrel from a Sako 85 varmint and Vortex Viper HST 6-24. I forgot to mention my bore and all bullets were coated with HBN 105 Hornady BTHP RL 26 46 2952 47 3058 48 3117 49 3212 The primers looked good through the 49 grains but I had a faint extractor mark on the case head. I think there is room for more speed. My downfall is the fact that my rifle has a 1:10 twist and I have not been able to stabilize 105 bthp or A max. I was hopeful that the bthp would stabilize since it doesnt say a 1:9 or faster required. on to the 87 V Max and IMR 4451 43 3086 44 3177 45 3272 46 3299 At 200 yards the vertical distance from the first shot to second was 1 3/4 inch. From shot 2 to 3 there was 1/8" vertical and horizontal!!! and the last shot was actually another 1/4" lower than shot 2 vertically but 3 1/2 inches right (dont think it was me) It looks like the 4451 is going to work great for my setup and with a .4 bc its not terrible for some paper punchin way out there.