20" Barrel , .308 Winchester, Heavy Bullet Load Development

[pushcoguy]

A search didn't turn up the info that I am after... so:

I have no experience loading heavy bullets, or for short barrels. I have a factory Remington 700 .308, with a 20 inch barrel. I wanted to build some hog loads, using a 200gr bullet, but I am not having much success. Using Win748, I don't seem to be getting a consistent and total burn... so I went to a faster powder (I don't have the notes in front of me), but the results were horrible. One problem, I am sure, is that I had been trying to fit these in the magazine. I have conceded that, if I find a good sub-MOA load, it wont fit in the mag; but what do you guys usually do, when stuffing big bullets in the little .308 case... and/or loading for a 20" .308 barrel?

--Thanks in advance--
Richard

 

[Trnelson]

I wouldn't worry much about the barrel length, you aren't giving up the farm. I would however want to find out if the twist rate of your barrel is sufficient to stabilize a 200g bullet. You may be seeing the results of an unstable bullet on the target. I have been utilizing the Berger 185 Juggernaut in my 1-11.25" twist 18" barrel auto-loader, 200g bullets group like buckshot out of my rifle. I get reliable magazine feeding and more than acceptable results at 2.800" COAL with the 185g juggernaut and I regularly shoot that bullet and rifle out to 1,000 yards.
In respect to powder, I would suggest that you try working with a temp stable powder. IMR4166, H4895, Varget, or R-16 among others should be suitable for heavy 308 rounds.

 

[huntinherrrington]

Rl-17 has been used for the 200+ grains for years. I first read about it when Montanamarine posted years ago. He used it for 308 & 30-06 with impressive results. Rl-17 is temperature sensitive so use caution with max loads as the temperature increases.

Here is one of his many threads.

https://forum.snipershide.com/forum/sniper’s-hide®-advance-marksmanship-unit/range-report-exterior-ballistics/153098-range-test-berger-215gr-hybrid-in-the-308-win

Copy and search the line below. Look through the thread topics and you will find more info also.

montanaMarine site: snipershide.com site:forum.snipershide.com

 

[pushcoguy]

Thanks for the replies.

My rifle has a 1/10 twist. I tried 200gr SMK and 200gr Barnes LRX bullets. I had a near MOA load, with the SMKs, but the Barnes don't do well at all. Maybe, like you suggested, they aren't stabilizing... especially the longer LRXs. I may be better off putting them in my .300 WM.

I have a box of Nosler 180gr Ballistic Tips, maybe I'll see how my rifle likes those.

On another note, I tried this brass that I was given. I did all of the prep work that I am tooled for, but maybe the cases are part of my problem. Do any of you have experience with "Perfecta" brand brass? I did a search for Perfecta, and I didn't see many results.

 

[RT2506]

Perfecta ammo is probably one of the cheapest you can get usually sold at Wal-Mart. I bought some 9mm and it shot about like Winchester white box in my Glock. I have not tried to reload any of the cases yet. As to your 200 gr bullets stabilizing 10 twist is what you want. Be aware that Barnes bullets need to jump a good ways to shoot best. If memory serves me their manual states that you should start at least 50 thousands off the lands and go further away to find accuracy. 20" barrel is really not a huge deal with the 308 Win because you really do not loose huge amounts of velocity going from 24" down to 20" like other calibers. My question is why 200 gr bullets for a hog. There is really nothing in North America that within reason a 180 gr bullet from a 308 can't handle. 150 to 165 gr hunting bullets should do anything you want to do to a hog. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[pushcoguy]

Good info about the Barnes bullets needing a jump. I hadn't heard that.

To answer the question about 200gr bullets, it's a lot about having never done it. It's a lot about learning more about building loads. As far as the hogs, I've killed them with everything from a .44 mag Ruger Superblackhawk, to a 30-30, .223, .243, .25-06... I just want to put a 200gr .30 cal bullet in one.

 

[RT2506]

Understand where you are coming from. Why climb that mountain? Because I have never done it before LOL.
I have been handloading for over 40 years and one thing that I have learned when hunting a good accurate load is to go first to the Sierra manual. It has suggested accuracy and hunting loads and the accuracy loads are usually just that with most any bullet in the weight suggested. COAL will be different but the powder charge is usually right. My older Sierra manual list for 200s an accuracy load of 47.1 grs or IMR 4350 and the newer one I have list 38 grs Varget. Of course work up to these loads but I would be willing to bet these will get you in the ball park of what you want. I have a custom 308 Win Rem 700 with a Heart light varmint barrel 21 1/2" long with a tight neck chamber. It was made up a long time ago as a hunter class bench rest rifle and to meet weight requirements the fellow had to have 1/2" taken off the barrel is the reason for the 21 1/2" barrel. It is still a tack driver after all these years latter. If you want to give a lighter bullet a try work up to 46 grs IMR 4895 with a 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Best whitetail deer bullet I have ever found for under 400 yards in most any 30 cal. as long as you keep the impact velocity under 3000 fps. Good luck.

 

[pushcoguy]

Thanks very much, for the input. I don't have the powders that you mentioned; maybe I'll have to buy some. I used to keep Varget, but never had "best results" with it. I sold the 1.5 lbs that I had left.

I hadn't really considered anything below 150, for the .308. That is an interesting idea.

Between myself and my dad, I am sure we've got a Sierra manual laying around. I'll check it out.

 

[pushcoguy]

I started shooting this rifle with factory Hornady ammo, 150 and 168 weight bullets. My rifle shoots the 168gr pills really well, with factory ammo. Using this dang Perfecta brass, I cant seem to get the same results (168SMK projo). I think step one, for any of this, may be to get some better brass.

 

[jpd676]

I have a Remington LTR 20" .308 and load the 208 Hornady's in it with Re-17. I tried other powders and they were so so but Re-17 was a game changer. I get 2400 fps and excellent accuracy with it.

 

[pushcoguy]

Thanks JPD,

That is exactly the kind of info that is super helpful right now.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Thanks for the replies.

My rifle has a 1/10 twist. I tried 200gr SMK and 200gr Barnes LRX bullets. I had a near MOA load, with the SMKs, but the Barnes don't do well at all. Maybe, like you suggested, they aren't stabilizing... especially the longer LRXs. I may be better off putting them in my .300 WM.

I have a box of Nosler 180gr Ballistic Tips, maybe I'll see how my rifle likes those.

On another note, I tried this brass that I was given. I did all of the prep work that I am tooled for, but maybe the cases are part of my problem. Do any of you have experience with "Perfecta" brand brass? I did a search for Perfecta, and I didn't see many results.

Try the Berger 215 Hybrids seated .015" off the lands with Varget powder, Lapua brass, and Federal 210M primers. Start out around 38 grains, and slowly work up to pressure signs or accuracy signs.

 

[dgr416]

The 165 grain boattails are awesome in.a short barrel 308 .I use then in.my h&k 91 all the time .I am going.to try 165 grain ballistic tips soon .My rifle won't shoot 180 grain bullets it's a h&k 91 but the 165 -168 grain bullets sneak into a little group .Guns are like women no two are the same !

 

[pushcoguy]

Report,

Ok, so I finally got a chance to do some more shooting. Because I have more time to load than to shoot, I had quite a few different things going.

I wanted to test 168gr, 180gr and 200gr bullets. I finally got some decent results. While I don't have my range notes in front of me (at work), I can say that I found a starting point with all three.

168gr SMK, 2.810", fire-formed and neck sized Perfecta brass, WLR primers & RL-15: This combo gave 4 rounds in 0.28?", and the one other opened the group to 1.200"...ish.

180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip "Hunting", 2.810", fire-formed and neck sized Hornady brass, WLR primers & RL-15: This combo gave me a very nice looking group, not bug-holes... but no fliers, at 1.1??"

200gr Barnes LRX, 2.810", fire-formed and neck sized Perfecta brass, WLR primers & some powder (I forget exactly which one, right now): This combo put 4 rounds at 0.75", and one that opend the group up to right at 1MOA.

I am not satisfied with any of these, but I am satisfied that I have results good enough to work with. The test loads were pretty crude, in that I had as much as 1.0gr powder increments in the work-ups. I figure I will tweak up and down 0.2gr at a time, with each combo, and see what I get. I am pretty stoked that I can get decent groups with the heavies, at mag length.