High pressure 6.5 creed equal to 6.5 prc ? Proof new barrel insight?

I understand the naysayers. I an not ready to consider a new cambering in an unproven high pressure, steel case, different/untested reloading process. While I find it interesting "sig fury/7bc" but not ready to try. But you already own the 6.5 creedmoor and here is a new offering that adds a new dentition of versatility with no down side for the increase in capability. I am not saying this is needed or necessary for all users but not to recognize the increase in versatility of a firearm you already own is comical.
 
Phil Rizzo said:
You left out the model 100 Winnie
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There are lot of firearms and cartridges that are designed for much lower pressure that are should not even be a part of this conversation. What you are comparing is the equivalent of the change from black powder to smokeless powder designed firearms and trying to use or feeling left out because the new powder will not work with your old technology.
 
stazmania said:
There are lot of firearms and cartridges that are designed for much lower pressure that are should not even be a part of this conversation. What you are comparing is the equivalent of the change from black powder to smokeless powder designed firearms and trying to use or feeling left out because the new powder will not work with your old technology.
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Ya think?
Me too
 
Phil Rizzo said:
Ya think?
Me too
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yeah i didn't drag these low pressure cartridges and firearms into this conversation. I only addressed them as irrelevant. But let me know when the make a 45-70 back country 80.000 psi cartridge so I can come back to this silly concern.
 
another question I would have is as this trend continues. How much difference/increased velocity will be gained with an over bore cartridge with this high treasure trend. Will the gains be as great "even with faster powders" or will there be diminishing returns do to bore size limitations? Imagine adding 300 fps to an already hot rod cartridge.
 
CRP003 said:
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Agreed! I am not going to use them, but I am glad they are available for those who will.
 
stazmania said:
yeah i didn't drag these low pressure cartridges and firearms into this conversation. I only addressed them as irrelevant. But let me know when the make a 45-70 back country 80.000 psi cartridge so I can come back to this silly concern.
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They are irrelevant.
And to me over-pressure tiny cases are as well, created just to make them more appealing. Plenty better options exist for the cause, already in our hands and available and performing, tuned and proven.
To each their own.👍
 
lancetkenyon said:
I don't think I would try these in a Rem 7400/7600, Savage 99, Winchester 94, or Ruger #1
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Thanks for that Lance; I wasn't going to try these in my wife's new custom No. 1 6.5 CM anyway, as she's recoil sensitive, but now I won't for sure.
 
On a site that spends endless hours discussing wild cats that add 100 or 200 fps to a cartridge to fit in a given action length, sometimes less, a new technology that does that without custom barrels, homemade brass or hoping one of the brass guys will produce brass with the proper head stamp. If the same increase can be obtained with a current cartridge what will we talk about? One of you hydraulic guys help me here, bolt thrust is dependent on pressure and the size of the base of the cartridge? If we build a 6.5prc on the same action as a 6.5 Creed is the bolt thrust greater in the PRC at the same pressure? Lots of work done early on with T\C contenders early on by J.D. Jones and others but I don't remember all the data. If the current claims are valid and the increases are somewhat linier imagine a 28Nos at similar pressure! I would think the bullet makers better busy.
 
From the perspective of somebody who buys off the shelf ammo, it is gonna be a tempting option. From the reloader's point of view not so much. It doesn't do, what properly loaded 6.5 PRC can do. Reloading that case is not going to be fun. I saw a video from Area 419, and they say that they are developing dies for it. The problem is that it is extremely neck tension sensitive, according to them. It needs to have 0.0005 neck tension. And half thousand have a huge impact on the pressure and the performance /their words/. Case lasts just few cycles. So doesn't look like fun to reload. As a side note, I wonder how long it will take for somebody to put some of these in an AR, and what will happen.
 
stoyan said:
From the perspective of somebody who buys off the shelf ammo, it is gonna be a tempting option. From the reloader's point of view not so much. It doesn't do, what properly loaded 6.5 PRC can do. Reloading that case is not going to be fun. I saw a video from Area 419, and they say that they are developing dies for it. The problem is that it is extremely neck tension sensitive, according to them. It needs to have 0.0005 neck tension. And half thousand have a huge impact on the pressure and the performance /their words/. Case lasts just few cycles. So doesn't look like fun to reload. As a side note, I wonder how long it will take for somebody to put some of these in an AR, and what will happen.
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I agree with you, when a 6.5 creedmoor shooter/user hears about this option it is going to be hard to resist. I will give it a try and if shoot good in my rifles, I will put it in the lineup. The 6.5 creedmoor is already a versatile cartridge with all the ammo options this just adds icing on the cake. Definitely the best popular cartridge to introduce and prove the concept to the public. How about a 100gr eld vt at over 3500 fps? I am also with you on the not ready to jump on the reloading these new cases yet. I do think the process will improve with time and innovation as more shooter adopt the new tech. The only way I can see this working in a gas gun and not have devastating/catastrophic bolt thrust is because the case expansion lock the case into the chamber due to extreme neck tension/interference, it is only my guess but the case material handling the additional pressure along with the neck holding pressure long enough to lock the case into the chamber and reducing bolt thrust to saami chamber limits.
 
I am looking at this one less as a "killer of the 6.5PRC" and more of a "6.5 Creed performance out of an 18" barrel" thing.

I chop 6 inches off of a standard Creed barrel, I can expect to lose somewhere between 100-150 fps. If I can gain that back and maybe get a few more fps by using the Peak Alloy casings without having to step up to a larger cartridge (with a mag bolt face most likely) that is pretty good in my estimation.

As for those with concerns about pressure and your action, if you handload and are one of the "load up until you see pressure signs and then back off a bit" loaders, I can pretty much guarantee you are already running north of 65K in your modern bottle-neck cartridges.
 

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