FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
"Long range hunting" is subjective. By your rationale, if one doesn't use a high BC target bullet for hunting, we should go the the…short range hunting forum?
TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!
- Thread starter Ucsdryder
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Ucsdryder
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It wasn't rationale, it was a response to a post.
Other poster implied that shooting past a few hundred yards, where MOST monos lose their juice is unethical.
It was a stupid argument he made but when grasping at straws you throw out anything that you can and hope something sticks.
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
I shoot 150 grn TTSX bullets out of my 300 WSM at 3205 fps. They are effective far past a few hundred yards especially at elevation. So….
Thread title:
TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!
As a statement, this is basically true. & conversely
so as well. It doesn't mean they absolutely can not be used in opposing applications.
Bullets are projectiles.
Projectiles require certain flight characteristics.
Projectiles have specific application design.
Applications require understanding
Projectile design & characteristics.
Application results require use.
Successful results are determined by how tightly one is holding the application environment parameters.
YMMV.
TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!
As a statement, this is basically true. & conversely
so as well. It doesn't mean they absolutely can not be used in opposing applications.
Bullets are projectiles.
Projectiles require certain flight characteristics.
Projectiles have specific application design.
Applications require understanding
Projectile design & characteristics.
Application results require use.
Successful results are determined by how tightly one is holding the application environment parameters.
YMMV.
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I'm not really blaming the bullet design just saying that they dont work for what I do the most. Having said that, I really hate the narrow wound channel that non petal shedding mono-metal bullets create compared to a Berger type bullet. To each it's own, I just don't get the do what I do or you're wrong mentality, regardless of the point of view you're defending.
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FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
Well said. I don't have an issue with folks using target bullets for hunting. You do you is my philosophy. I'm just not a fan of flat out arrogance when someone wants to use something else…like a "hunting" bullets. Silly in my mind.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Labeling by the bullet manufacturer can be misleading.
1. When I started shooting/hunting with Beger bullets they were in a yellow box and labeled match bullets. Eventually, Berger took those exact same bullets and put them in an orange box which was labeled hunting bullets.
2. For several years I hunted whitetails with a 7STW and the Hornady 162gr A-Max match bullets. In some of Hornady's older reloading manuals is stated that this bullet was good for shooting large soft skinned animals, despite the "match" designation.
I think that it has been proven fairly conclusively that it doesn't matter how a bullet manufacturer labels a bullet, because it could well serve in a different capacity providing that the shooter matches the bullet's performance to the task at hand.
1. When I started shooting/hunting with Beger bullets they were in a yellow box and labeled match bullets. Eventually, Berger took those exact same bullets and put them in an orange box which was labeled hunting bullets.
2. For several years I hunted whitetails with a 7STW and the Hornady 162gr A-Max match bullets. In some of Hornady's older reloading manuals is stated that this bullet was good for shooting large soft skinned animals, despite the "match" designation.
I think that it has been proven fairly conclusively that it doesn't matter how a bullet manufacturer labels a bullet, because it could well serve in a different capacity providing that the shooter matches the bullet's performance to the task at hand.
Ucsdryder
Well-Known Member
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Nothing wrong with that setup! You're pushing a decent weighted bullet at a great speed out of a magnum setup. That's definitely not the norm for every mono shooter though.
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
I've had the opposite experience. Experience teaches us and guides us for future purchases. I don't blame you one bit.
I do not think labeling by bullet manufacturers is misleading, but I agree with your last paragraph, and as it should be. The end-user will always push the envelope and try it for themselves regardless of box color, labeling, or bullet use designation. This thread is an example of that. Like you, I have used Berger match bullets and A-Max (and now ELD-Ms and A-Tips) bullets since the early 2000s. Cheers!
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FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
You bring up a good point. It is up to the hunter/shooter to do some homework to understand the projectile they're shooting. They all have their pluses and minuses.
Soon I will be working up a 235 grn TSX load for my .375 H&H. I'm hoping for 2700-2800 fps from this load. While it is not a long range load relative to my flat shooting .30 cal mags, it will turn that old cartridge into a flatter shooting long range load…relatively speaking. Since I'm not going to Africa anytime soon, this will make it a more doable elk gun. I have gone over the numbers, however, to ensure the juice is worth the squeeze.
memtb
Well-Known Member
I agree with your philosophy on all points.
I load a different bullet weight in my .375, read what Barnes states as the minimal velocity for expansion then add a couple hundred fps for insurance. And…..that yardage is still beyond the distance at which I'll shoot. Not because of potential bullet failure…..but, because that's my comfortable distance for shooting game. Inanimate objects, the sky is the limit….and for that purpose I'll use a different bullet! memtb
The most significant factor is always the NUT behind the trigger. I remember how many times people complained about Berger not having an exit wound, but their game was DRT. And when I try to explain that Berger bullets are fragmenting bullets and need not have an exit wound to be effective, they get mad. The burden of bullet choice for the intended purpose and understanding the bullet design falls to the NUT behind the trigger.
Berger's ability to be effective without a pass-through is one of the features I switch; it reduces the risk of shooting an unintended target, i.e., behind the game. There is a video out on the web that shows a NUT killing a game behind his intended target.
If you look at Nathan fosters work even in a hunting bullet line like the sierra game king there can be a big difference in bullet performance in certain calibers and weights. Point being target and hunting is just a name put on a bullet. They are all still cup and core bullets with varying designs and performance.
