142 ABLR vs 143 ELD-x vs 140 Elite Hunter

jshepherd61 said:

Kind of comparing Apples to Oranges, I use all three Bullets in my 6.5 Creedmoor but where they really shine is in my 26 NOSLER pushing all three around 3,520 fps over Retumbo and Fed 215m primers and 2,725 fps over H4350 over BR4 primers in my 6.5 Creedmoor! The Creedmoor likes a small jump .024 the 26 Nosler crammed into the lans! Both are between 0.120" and 0.153" at 200 yds. As long as I have not had too much coffee in the am!!! I would say push them a little harder, stretch out your rounds start at 0.020 and work back if that does not work try reducing the load and touching the lans, but first change primers!!!!

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Oh and the NOS ABLR's have been the easiest, most accurate and better performing on game of the three! Use them in my 7 STW and 30-378 also!

You spelled Shepherd right.
Shep

Grease gun, your choice of primer is killing you. Your thinking is correct in thick cup primers, but you need a hot primer, which the cci 400 and cci 41 are not.

Use the 450 and 7 1/2 and see what happens with your groups. You also may find better accuracy with a large rifle primer.

If you need to have your bolt bused to stop cratering, then it is around $85 for the fix.

I usually work with a single bullet and powder, then move on to another bullet...makes things simpler.

Wind at your range maybe an issue. I draw arrows on the target to show the wind direction for that day. Keeping groups to 1/2 moa when the wind is switching around is tough to impossible....without at least a couple of wind flags out.

ON THE PRIMER SUBJECT, if you haven't seen this its illuminating...

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471

Canhunter35 said:

.05" jump and 41.5-42gr of h4350 should be on the money with the 143. I've had good accuracy with the bullet, but if you've covered the bases, I'd move on. I'd try the 135 Berger classic hunter or the 130-140 eldm. They both perform similar to the 143. Or just use the Berger target bullets. Good luck

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Agreed. I use the same Base to Ogive measurement for the 143 ELD-X an the 140 EH with excellent results. Both are in the sweet spot at right around .050" off.

Greasegun said:

Hello, New to this forum, first post here. Did a little searching, didnt find what I was after, sorry if this is redundant.

Working up a 6.5 creedmoor long range deer hunting load. Started with 143Eldx, but have only been able to get them down to 3/4 MOA @ 100-200 yards, even after tuning seating depth. Hoping for better. Thinking of trying either the berger 140 elite hunter or the 142 accubond long range. What is the consensus on this forum about accuracy of those bullets, and what are ya'll experiencing with terminal performance of them? This will be used on whitetail out to 600 yard for now but maybe out to 1000 some day. Are there any other high BC options I am missing?
Thanks!

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I have worked up loads for several 6.5CM and they all shot 1/4" or less at 100yards and 3/4or less at 300yards. Load for all were:
Powder- H4350
Charge- 42.0-42.5 gr.
Bullet: Horn. 143ELDX
*Note: adjust seating depth to lands. Some shot touching and some were around five thousands off.
Hope this helps.

*Note: adjust seating depth to lands. Some shot touching and some were around five thousandths off.

No truer words ever spoken! For this reason, many rifles are at their best shot as a single shot or a two shot.

Wyatt's mag box will fix some of this issue adding .120 to available OAL.

I expect groups in the 2's, three shot, repeat several times after barrel cools.

Simple wind flags are worth their weight in gold, and most are too hard headed to use them. Wind is not a constant, it picks up, switches, dies down. When you can read these simple changes, your groups shrink tremendously. Then you wonder, "where the hell have I been all these years?"

6.5 Cred with .199 freebore is on the ragged edge of being too long with the use of a vld bullet with magazine max OAL in medium length actions. So, you play with jumping the bullet to make best use of a bad situation. ON the next custom build, have .129 freebore reamer used instead of a .199 is one fix. The other fixes are to a long action on the next build with plenty of mag room to chase the leade as it grows, or go to a 6.5x47 Lapua which is a shorter cartridge.

Some rifles will shoot well jumping, some will NOT, PERIOD. You are forced to seat to maximum magazine OAL, and work up the best load for that spot. As you shoot, leade will increase to a point to where accuracy with that bullet will not be attained. At that point, going to a bullet like a Sierra 140g btsp will give you accuracy, but you will loose BC....pick your poison.

In my 6.5 creeds, the 143 eld x likes to touch the lands for the smallest groups that are bug holes. 140g Hornady bthp likes to touch the lands. 140g berger VLD hunting likes .010 off. 123g and 140g Sierra match like to touch the lands. 120 and 140g Sierra Pro Hunters have a wide range of OAL's that shoot small groups, and these two bullets are not of a VLD design.

On a custom build, design for success way down the road, not just when the barrel is new. Rem long actions and Tikka's have plenty of extra room to play with. The weight difference between a short and long action Rem build is about 6 oz.

When my barrels are shooting 5/8"-3/4" at 100, it is time for a new barrel or a barrel set back to get the bullet closer to the lands....not a small consideration.

Accuracy is a relative thing from individual to individual. You can work up acceptable loads to hunt with jumping the bullets, but it is a fickle bitch to deal with over time, especially with VLD bullets. Berger has come out with a Classic line of bullet that helps tremendously with this issue, more bearing surface, less VLD. If you have not tried any of the Berger Classic bullets, I suggest that you try some during the Holiday sales...you are in for real treat when it comes to small groups and tuning a load for best OAL.

Greasegun said:

Hello, New to this forum, first post here. Did a little searching, didnt find what I was after, sorry if this is redundant.

Working up a 6.5 creedmoor long range deer hunting load. Started with 143Eldx, but have only been able to get them down to 3/4 MOA @ 100-200 yards, even after tuning seating depth. Hoping for better. Thinking of trying either the berger 140 elite hunter or the 142 accubond long range. What is the consensus on this forum about accuracy of those bullets, and what are ya'll experiencing with terminal performance of them? This will be used on whitetail out to 600 yard for now but maybe out to 1000 some day. Are there any other high BC options I am missing?
Thanks!

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Hi Greasegun,
Well the 140 gr Berger Elite Hunters worked really well in my 260 Rem. Ya might give them a try. I was utilizing V V N550 and WLR primers in Lapua brass. Also..WELCOME. 3 shots 2760 ish ft/s @ 100. Only problem is the 20 thou off the lands makes it to long for the mag well,

johnnyk said:

My suggestion; try a different primer other than CCI 41? That primer might work OK but I have my doubts on it in your setup. You are shooting a bolt action, right? It was designed for military semi-auto type rifles to prevent slam fires by being less sensitive as other primers.
If you're using small rifle primer's try the CCI BR4 or 400's. Reduce and work up your load even when changing primers.
I have used the 143's in my 6.5-284 before and they accurate (.45") but not as accurate as the 140 and 147 ELD-M's (.2-.3"). Different cartridge I know but the bullets have been consistent for me.
I have taken one whitetail with the 147 but it wasn't a true testament of its capabilities as a hunting bullet. It was a high shoulder shot at just under 200yds. Bang, flop, start skinning.

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I second on trying a different primer and would recommend CCI 450 highly. Also, don't get overly obsessed with your 100 yard groups. Yes, it's a huge confidence boost to have a bug hole 5 shot group, but it's not always the load or the barrel harmonics that blow a .3 group to .9.... we are only human after all. The harder I try for that tiny group on paper the more it evades me. take your best group that has lowest ES and (If you can), hang a plate at 600 and find your load that hits that plate 5/5. You'll probably find a sub .5 load that will be your huckleberry.

"Simple wind flags are worth their weight in gold, and most are too hard headed to use them. Wind is not a constant, it picks up, switches, dies down. When you can read these simple changes, your groups shrink tremendously. Then you wonder, "where the hell have I been all these years?""
Amen brother, so true!

147 ELD-M, better accuracy and BC than the above bullets and kills just as fast or even better

6.5 creed
147 eldm
Fed match primer
Lapua brass
H4350
2850 fps
These were part of my preliminary seating depth test so only 3 shot groups but I think it's getting there. I buy 147s in the 2000 count. They are great to me.
Shep

JTB said:

1:8 has been working well for the 156

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Don't forget the basic 6.5 Bullet for the Swedish military was (I believe) 165 grains with a 1:8 twist... Swedish hunters also used this combination to hunt Moose!

My son and business partner both have CT Carbon Edge Fierce Rifles in 6.5 Creed. They both use RL-17 powder, my son gets about .5 MOA at 2720 fps using 41.5 grs RL-17, Lapua brass, CCI BR-2 and 142 Nosler Accubond (20"Bbl). He shoots about 100+ deer a year as ranch manger and wildlife biologist (Culling and harvest plans on big ranches) and says the Accubond is very deadly on WT deer--usually DRT 1 shot kills. He has no love for the 143 ELD-X and hasn't used the Berger much on game but said its seems to be a pretty good killer as well...just went through a period where we couldn't get 'em (the Bergs) so developed his best load with Nos ABLRs.