Well a little bit of background, long range shooting and loading are nothing new to me, but front-stuffers are. I've shot them here and there, but never developed a load for one, or owned one. On a long chance my mom drew a ML bull elk tag. I need to get a ML and get it shooting good out to 100yds by Sep. I'd like to get a muzzle loader that I could do something with in the future. A few years ago I was set on a Savage ML10-II. I'd like something I could reach out to 300yds. Further would be better, but I don't want to wrap up a bunch of money into a custom ML that gets used once every 5-10 years. I've seen a few customs that are very impressive, but ML aren't really my thing. Am I on the right path looking into a Savage. Any other suggestions?
Help me pick a ML
- Thread starter youngbuck
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ENCORE
Well-Known Member
Also consider that some states do not allow saboted bullets during their dedicated muzzleloader seasons but, I believe they're allowed during the regular seasons. This must be a consideration, as some will shoot conicals better than others. Although some of those rifles that won't shoot a conical good, they will shoot a Thor great. Another bullet option for those states not allowing sabots......
Big difference between a whitetail and elk but, I know hunters that have taken deer at 300yds. Muzzle velocity starts to drop and bullet energy drops off significantly too. I'm not an elk hunter but, someone should be able to tell you the minimum recommended bullet energy for elk.
I prefer shooting Blackhorn 209 propellant. There are a ton of reasons for that. I'd highly suggest you consider it but, make sure when purchasing a muzzleloader that the breech plug is designed to shoot it. Many of the CVA rifles require either a replacement breech plug or modification. T/C rifles need no modification and will shoot it right out of the box. Blackhorn 209
I'm partial to the T/C Pro Hunter and have been a T/C shooter since the Encore platform came out. If..... I had the opportunity to hunt elk, my choice of propellant would be BH209, with CCI209M primers and I'd switch from my usual 250gr Barnes TMZ to the heavier 290gr Barnes TMZ bullets. With BH209 the maximum charge is 120grs (V). I currently shoot 110grs (V). If my groups held, I'd shoot the max 120gr (V) load.
Good luck with your decision.......... practice, practice, practice
Big difference between a whitetail and elk but, I know hunters that have taken deer at 300yds. Muzzle velocity starts to drop and bullet energy drops off significantly too. I'm not an elk hunter but, someone should be able to tell you the minimum recommended bullet energy for elk.
I prefer shooting Blackhorn 209 propellant. There are a ton of reasons for that. I'd highly suggest you consider it but, make sure when purchasing a muzzleloader that the breech plug is designed to shoot it. Many of the CVA rifles require either a replacement breech plug or modification. T/C rifles need no modification and will shoot it right out of the box. Blackhorn 209
I'm partial to the T/C Pro Hunter and have been a T/C shooter since the Encore platform came out. If..... I had the opportunity to hunt elk, my choice of propellant would be BH209, with CCI209M primers and I'd switch from my usual 250gr Barnes TMZ to the heavier 290gr Barnes TMZ bullets. With BH209 the maximum charge is 120grs (V). I currently shoot 110grs (V). If my groups held, I'd shoot the max 120gr (V) load.
Good luck with your decision.......... practice, practice, practice
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
I had a TC encore when they first came out i only shot it a few times but it seemed like a pretty legit setup. If I were to buy another id look into the TC lineup. they seem to have it figured out
Young buck, if you are a LR shooter you would like the Sav. ML. You can use the Blackhorn 209 powder and I have shot it in my older TC. Sold the TC because I like shooting bug holes since I reload. There are all kind of variations of loads you could use to shoot in the Savage. They also will shoot sabot less if needed. You would not be disappointed.
Chip
Chip
mtnwrunner
Well-Known Member
Well, since you asked, I'll give you my opinion. First off, I'm a traditional guy with muzzleloaders and archery. Don't want to step on toes but in my opinion and FOR ME, they both are a close range primitive endeavor. So, that being said, you can't go wrong with a T/C hawken. You can shoot round balls and conicals out of that. I also have a Lyman and a pedersoli which also both shoot great. I think someone else said it but practice, practice, practice. And if you know anyone that already shoots a smokepole, you would be way ahead of the curve to get with them and learn all you can. They are actually really easy to shoot but you can make mistakes.
Congrats to your mom and good luck.
Randy
Congrats to your mom and good luck.
Randy
Truc
Well-Known Member
I have a TC Hawkins flintlock that I've hunted with, but since I bought a Savage ML and converted it to 45 Cal. The TC sits in the safe. Just too much trouble cleaning it every time I shot it.
The SML's can shoot non saboted loads basically in one hole. The real cats meow for me is a converted 700 ML to a 45 cal or smaller.
The SML's can shoot non saboted loads basically in one hole. The real cats meow for me is a converted 700 ML to a 45 cal or smaller.
Ultimate firearms. I went on a guided elk hunt thinking i was ready. My TC pro hunter was good to 250 yrds. When i arrived the guide asked what muzzy i had and he was unimpressed. First 15 min of my hunt the guide had me on a high bluff with a 350 class bull at 315 yrds. Outa my range! Then he tells me about the ultimate muzzleloader and that all the guides have one and 315 yrds is a chip shot for the ultimate. Anyway i own one now and i can shoot a 6 inch 500 yrd group with it. And i'm sure the gun would do better in more capable hands. Never again will a big bull at 315 yrds walk outa my life. Anyway. Check em out. 300gr bullet, 200gr pyrodex, 2400 fps
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
No doubt, the Ultimate is a long range shooter, made right here in Michigan, just a few miles from where I lived before retirement. But..... THEY AIN'T CHEAP.
Long Range Muzzleloader - Custom Muzzleloader - Not a Smokeless Muzzleloader - Savage Muzzleloader Competitor
Long Range Muzzleloader - Custom Muzzleloader - Not a Smokeless Muzzleloader - Savage Muzzleloader Competitor
Encore,
Your absolutely correct. I didnt fully read the original post where it spicifically states they arent looking for a custom muzzy. Sorry
Wlhofer
Well-Known Member
If someone would say pick one gun only .hands down TC muzzleloader I love muzzleloading own a tc endeavour . Very easy to clean if you use blackthorn 209 powder i only clean at the end of hunting season and i shoot 40 plus rounds
I even fill my high power tag with it 250 yards no problem 209 powder and hornady sst 250 gr
but that's just my humble opinion
I even fill my high power tag with it 250 yards no problem 209 powder and hornady sst 250 gr
but that's just my humble opinion
Joey 3
Member
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
I know a guy here in MI that received one about a month ago. However I'm still waiting for target pictures. As wound up as he was about getting it, I don't believe he's shot it yet.
They sent the first batch out to all the writers for evaluation. Now evaluation is one thing, a complete testing is another. I tried to get one that was used in evaluation to put through some rigorous testing and I thought Mr. Hanley was going to send me one. That hasn't happened yet either. What I have heard, is that the breech stays clean as claimed. I've yet to see any postings of actual "testing" of different bullets or target pictures........
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
Yes, I am very interested in that rifle.
