Reloading- What pressure signs do you stop at?

[Dean2]

Most reloading manuals have been lawyered down in resent years. But do not jump on me yet! Powder changes and brass has become better. I,ve got loading manuals frrom1960. They put in on average about two grains of powder more than todays manuals. Friend shoots 54. Something , in his 30-06 with 168 Hornady Amax. About two grains of IMR 4064 over book max. Been doing it for 40 years. Still has all his fingers and both eyes. That being said , stiff bolt is what I look at first. Loose primer pockets is a dead give away.

A couple of points. I have seen write ups by Hodgdon adressing the "Lawyer Factor" specifically. Long and short of what they said, pressure measurement technology is FAR superior to what it used to be. Brass is much stronger and generally harder, actions are built to tighter tolerances, primers are hotter and powder tends to be more consistent in burn rate from batch to batch. They retested many thousands of loads, and adjusted their load data to match the new pressure results. They aren't fudging when they say a certain load hits 65,000 PSI. They have also said that when you are starting to get hard bolt lift you are at least 10 to 15,000 PSI over. That isn't Proof Load level yet but certainly not what I want to do.

If it comes to believing them with all the gear they have, and believing posts of people on the net I have never met I can pretty much tell you which way I plan to go.

 

[kfreeze]

I always stop and back off ejector marks. The whole circle on the case head. Then back off to where I have acceptable accuracy. A light swipe can come from a bur or sharp edge in the bolt around the ejector plunger.

 

[cajun]

A couple of points. I have seen write ups by Hodgdon adressing the "Lawyer Factor" specifically. Long and short of what they said, pressure measurement technology is FAR superior to what it used to be. Brass is much stronger and generally harder, actions are built to tighter tolerances, primers are hotter and powder tends to be more consistent in burn rate from batch to batch. They retested many thousands of loads, and adjusted their load data to match the new pressure results. They aren't fudging when they say a certain load hits 65,000 PSI. They have also said that when you are starting to get hard bolt lift you are at least 10 to 15,000 PSI over. That isn't Proof Load level yet but certainly not what I want to do.

If it comes to believing them with all the gear they have, and believing posts of people on the net I have never met I can pretty much tell you which way I plan to go.

This^^. If you notice Hogdon and western powder put pressure numbers in their data. Most bullet companies do not. Hogdons data is also lower than Noslers on average. Why? Because they pressure test all their data. The Bullet companies test some but not all of their data.

 

[Hudge76]

I stop at heavy bolt lift, ejector marks, primer flattening depending on primer brand, and ignore primer cratering, as I have two Rem 700's that crater primers no matter what. Now if they show up on a non Rem 700, I'll pay attention.

 

[memtb]

Thanks for your honesty! This is the kind of info that is so valuable to safety. I love theory as well as the next guy, but these are the experiences at the limits that people need to hear.

Thank you again!
HW

hankle, I don't know if you'll see the logic in this method!

No matter how temperature stable a powder is "supposed" to be, I work up to my maximum loads on a hot day…..allowing everything to reach ambient temperature prior to load development. In my mind, this assures that I should never have a temperature related pressure issue when hunting.

Once you've established you "hot day" maximum…..you can then verify your velocities/groups down to or below your minimum expected hunting temperatures! memtb

 

[hankle]

You have set interesting rules. Who is Steve?
Ejector wipe is a sign of pressure too high for that brass. Try better brass.
Heavy bolt lift is a sign to avoid.
Flat primers are a headspace situation.
I stay within published data.
Thanks for asking.
Here is a good link:

Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc

Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.

www.primalrights.com

Safety Steve is a pseudonym for describing a male version of a modern Karen (lol). Someone that would lord safety and theory over everyone else's head. They usually lean self-righteous in their efforts to make you feel lesser. I think we have only had one so far...

 

[Rosebud]

A couple of points. I have seen write ups by Hodgdon adressing the "Lawyer Factor" specifically. Long and short of what they said, pressure measurement technology is FAR superior to what it used to be. Brass is much stronger and generally harder, actions are built to tighter tolerances, primers are hotter and powder tends to be more consistent in burn rate from batch to batch. They retested many thousands of loads, and adjusted their load data to match the new pressure results. They aren't fudging when they say a certain load hits 65,000 PSI. They have also said that when you are starting to get hard bolt lift you are at least 10 to 15,000 PSI over. That isn't Proof Load level yet but certainly not what I want to do.

If it comes to believing them with all the gear they have, and believing p

All true, as I said, powder and brass is better! But unless you have your own pressure gauge you're relying on Hornady, Nosler, and Hodgden for your information. They are worried about someone blowing up their rifle so they put in a safety margin.Again, lawyers are involved!

 

[memtb]

Most reloading manuals have been lawyered down in resent years. But do not jump on me yet! Powder changes and brass has become better. I,ve got loading manuals frrom1960. They put in on average about two grains of powder more than todays manuals. Friend shoots 54. Something , in his 30-06 with 168 Hornady Amax. About two grains of IMR 4064 over book max. Been doing it for 40 years. Still has all his fingers and both eyes. That being said , stiff bolt is what I look at first. Loose primer pockets is a dead give away.

Not just recent years! 30+ years ago I found a full 4 grain discrepancy between older Hornady data and new WW data. When I got to the maximum listed Hornady load, amazing groups….and no obvious pressure signs! Go figure! memtb

 

[comfisherman]

I look at all the old wives tale signs spoken about before. Then I realized modern brass is so doggone good it covers a multitude of sins then I just go look at the muzzle velocity.

If it's too good to be true it's too much pressure for a new combo or an unknown combo. It's displacement and pressure behind a bullet weight burned in a length of tube, if you're doing more than can be explained for Barrel speed variation or elevation... it's to much pressure.

Someday I'm going to bite the bullet and figure out what it actually cost to set up a Piezo pressure sensing unit. We have portable dopplers for 650 bucks just got to be someone making a decent setup for the Everyman. For now I trust the muzzle velocity.

 

[Rosebud]

My humor seems to be seriously misunderstood on the forum. Guess I'll have to use the old dragnet tv show phrase. Only the facts sir. Blown primers and loose primer pocket is a sure give away for high pressure in case I was misunderstood!

 

[memtb]

I look at all the old wives tale signs spoken about before. Then I realized modern brass is so doggone good it covers a multitude of sins then I just go look at the muzzle velocity.

If it's too good to be true it's too much pressure for a new combo or an unknown combo. It's displacement and pressure behind a bullet weight burned in a length of tube, if you're doing more than can be explained for Barrel speed variation or elevation... it's to much pressure.

Someday I'm going to bite the bullet and figure out what it actually cost to set up a Piezo pressure sensing unit. We have portable dopplers for 650 bucks just got to be someone making a decent setup for the Everyman. For now I trust the muzzle velocity.

I never priced one…. But, I believe that Ohler once offered one! It would be pretty sweet to have one! memtb

 

[kfreeze]

hankle, I don't know if you'll see the logic in this method!

No matter how temperature stable a powder is "supposed" to be, I work up to my maximum loads on a hot day…..allowing everything to reach ambient temperature prior to load development. In my mind, this assures that I should never have a temperature related pressure issue when hunting.

Once you've established you "hot day" maximum…..you can then verify your velocities/groups down to or below your minimum expected hunting temperatures! memtb

I do the same thing. Always make sure that I know my max is safe at 30-40° warmer than normal hunting temps where I will be.

 

[comfisherman]

I never priced one…. But, I believe that Ohler once offered one! It would be pretty sweet to have one! memtb

That's good to know I was not aware they had made one. Sounds like a good phone call to make on Monday, don't see anything on the website but maybe they got a line on who took over that rule or who their competition was. I read all kinds of claims on the internet, lots of "my new efficient design"... the one that uses 4 in less Barrel and 15 grains less powder as known rounds... I'd love to see where the pressure actually is.

 

[dblman]

Stiff bolt lift and loose primer pockets are a dead giveaway alright. A dead giveaway of way excess pressure.