I Hate Hammer Bullets!

I'll bite also. First I do shoot the bullets. I also shoot more bergers than hammers. Each has their place. I've seen what the hammers do and they do kill very effectively. They are not for extreme long range because of the law of physics. That's why I shoot more bergers. But….. I will say if I had to pick one bullet to shoot and that's all I could I would probably lean towards the hammers because most shots on game let's face it are under 500 yards. That bullet is made for it.

I agree with creedmoor there is a huge following and they best the war drums pretty good and are almost offended it seems when anyone doesn't shoot them or the OP's of unintended post are high jacked and some how gets turned into a hammer super bowl.

That being said I think we need to let things roll off our shoulders on here a little more and don't take things so offensive like as of late. But that is how the whole country seems to be currently everyone getting their feelings hurt.

As for the Hammer company great bullet great service keep up what your doing. But I won't shoot hammers at 1000 yards lol.
 
Please explain this. "But I think this thread is just stirring the pot unnecessarily .."
I think this thread will likely degrade into a ****ing contest the same way if I posted "tell me why you hate Ruger ", or "tell me why you hate ford trucks". It's just going to stir up folks. I think Steve makes a great product, and he's poured his heart and soul into his company. I respect the heck out of that. I am just satisfied using other bullets, so I don't see a need to change. Several other posters have replied with similar thoughts, I don't think I'm way out of bounds. I hope Steve gets the responses he's looking for, but I think there's better way to find out why folks don't use one product over another.
 
I'll bite also. First I do shoot the bullets. I also shoot more bergers than hammers. Each has their place. I've seen what the hammers do and they do kill very effectively. They are not for extreme long range because of the law of physics. That's why I shoot more bergers. But….. I will say if I had to pick one bullet to shoot and that's all I could I would probably lean towards the hammers because most shots on game let's face it are under 500 yards. That bullet is made for it.

I agree with creedmoor there is a huge following and they best the war drums pretty good and are almost offended it seems when anyone doesn't shoot them or the OP's of unintended post are high jacked and some how gets turned into a hammer super bowl.

That being said I think we need to let things roll off our shoulders on here a little more and don't take things so offensive like as of late. But that is how the whole country seems to be currently everyone getting their feelings hurt.

As for the Hammer company great bullet great service keep up what your doing. But I won't shoot hammers at 1000 yards lol.
I agree with this entire post 100%. Great post Longtine 👍
 
No hate Steve.My brother asked me to join him on a hog hunt in Texas and said he had an AR15 for me to use with Thor bullets.Never heard of them but went and shot 3 hogs.2 died on the spot and 3rd ran and my brother got it.
I wanted those Thor bullets but never found them.Late last year his son sent me his dads reloading gear that he could not sell when my brother died.Inside the box was Hammer 52 gr bullets.What that 52 gr bullet did to 2 hogs was beyond belief.
The proof was there for me to see.I LOVE HAMMER bullets.
When hunting High Line openings or long range shots I don't use Hammers but inside 400 yards or shorter I use them.Longtine99 made me think of that and I edited my post to include this tid bit.
 
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We have messed with tips and so far everything that we have tried has made low velocity impacts worse for terminal performance. We will not chase price or bc at the detriment of terminal performance. Nor will we market a bullet that works most of the time. I wouldn't shoot it myself so why would I be willing to sell it? If we can come up with a tip design that doesn't inhibit low velocity performance we will be all over it. I will have to eat some crow but I would eat that crow willingly.
I would guess a Shock Hammer would open well enough with a tipped bullet. Is there anything wrong with a separate line of bullets with a higher terminal velocity or is that counter productive to longer range shots?
 
I will say the same thing as a few others have said.

I really don't think hardly anyone "hates" hammer bullets, at least, I personally haven't seen anyone say anything like that. Hate is a rather strong word. The only complaint I have seen, which is legitimate, is bc, which for many of us that shoot 500-1200 yards for hunting purposes, is an unavoidable determent due to the specific design of your bullets, that is necessary for the proper function of your monolithic bullets. You have bullets that have a good bc to them, such as the 285 grain .338 cal with a .355 G7 (I own some), however the same gun that shoots that bullet can shoot several other bullets with G7's well over .400, of a similar weight, and the end result is much less wind drift and more retained velocity and energy in the same rifle at distance. But to avoid getting too technical, I digress.

Steve, you and I have talked before, both in p.m.'s and on the phone, and I use your bullets in a few rifles, they work great for their intended purpose, and you are very helpful with figuring out appropriate loads. However your bullets aren't currently the perfect solution for every rifle and every use, and there is nothing wrong with that! They do a good job at killing critters, and are easy to load for accuracy.

I think the part everyone "hates", is what has already been stated.
For me it's certain of the crowd that shoot your bullets that get annoying. Much like alot of people who shoot the 6.5 creedmoor have done for other folks. They beat that drum so hard that after awhile it gets alittle old to listen to.
The drama is tiresome. They simply aren't the "perfect" bullet for everything, I have even heard you say something similar to this, and some people get extremely defensive about that. Pretty much all of us understand why your bullet's bc's aren't as high as many others, and pretty much everyone highly respects your reasoning behind it. What people don't respect is getting bombarded for saying it, that is all.

As far as for marketing and attempting to progress your business, I have my opinions. This will be my opinion on it, so it may not be worth much, but here it is. I think the best thing you can do, is stay neutral as much as possible. You sell a great product, a product that is now established, and functions as you state, nothing more, nothing less. I feel people that say it is the only bullet anyone should ever use for any type of hunting, and is perfect for absolutely every use, as well as people that would say it is a useless, terrible, and pointless bullet, should be distanced from your business. Extremes in either direction tend to cause many problems for businesses.

I do not believe you are at fault for any of the following, and a lot of this is stated in general, not specifically directed at your business, so please don't take it as that. As Americans, we don't like opinions, good or bad, to be forced upon us. Tell us what you offer, and your bullets will sell themselves, as they already have. Aggressive marketing or splashing of opinions everywhere can be very detrimental in the long run. It creates annoyance for educated people, people that just need the facts presented to them, and are fully capable of making their decisions. Heavy, aggressive marketing works well for the less "in the know" people, no doubt. However, that is generally not the market here. Again, I personally don't see you specifically doing this at all, so please don't take this as a personal attack, it is not, and I respect you and your business. It seems to be more other people that are overly aggressive and "pro hammer" that seem to be somewhat hurting your business image. I know this may be greatly out of your control as well, unfortunately.

As far as R&D, I probably won't say anything you don't already know or have already tried. But you have a good bullet design with your current line up, nothing needs to be changed for them. If you truly want to create the "Perfect" bullet, maintain your current line, but on the side I would be doing some testing. I would focus as hard as I could on researching and testing to finding a way to get a tipped type bullet to perform as your current bullets do to increase bc. Making your hollow point smaller to increase bc will undoubtedly reduce terminal performance, therefore, the only other way is to add a tip. If you could get your current bullet performance, but with the bc of some of the other manufacturers, I do believe you would have nearly the "perfect" bullet.

The bantering, arguing, jumpy, overly defensive bickering has got to stop, on EVERYONE's part. None of this is the purpose of Len's living room. We should be better than all this. I am not defending either side, and am not taking sides. I'm just annoyed of getting on this forum to relax, read and enjoy my passion, and just seeing a bunch of grown men bickering.
 
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I neither like, dislike or hate Hammer bullets.
I have asked questions, spoken privately to another Aussie on this forum and been given the information I required.
My only issue is the fact that not a single offering 'I' want to use seems to coincide with my twist rate.
It doesn't offer anything other than a lighter option at a higher velocity….this is not a bad thing, just not how I hunt.
The Barnes TSX was also touted as a lighter option with a heavier bullets performance. I never found that, and the accuracy was not good. The newer TTSX is very accurate in comparison.
Until there is an option on a bullet weight I can utilise, I guess I will be waiting on the fence with many others watching.

Cheers.
 
I've had Berger 205 Elite Hunters backordered since last March or April. So I went with 199 grn Hammer Hunters this past fall out of my 300 RUM. Very accurate bullet. Shot a deer at 711 yds. Shot a doe antelope at 580 yds and one at 400. However, I've been a loyal Berger shooter and their prices are a lot better. If I don't have my Bergers by mid next summer, I'll order 50 more HH's. No other reason to not use HH's except the price. That first shot was an ELD X that I used as a cleaner...
Tight Grp.jpg
 
I hate how easy they make reloading. It's not supposed to be easy, it's taking the fun out of it for me. Stupid hammers.

Oh and my wife hates them, I buy too many 😬
I'd go with that. If they were more like bergers where a guy could burn up a bunch of hard to find powder and primers just to see where they want to go splat on the lands would be way better!
 
CodyAdams,

It sure seems like you and others like you are the ones who bring up Hammer bullets in other threads. And then complain about it.

So far in this thread about bringing up criticism of Hammer bullets all we have are people who bring up Hammer bullets and complain about it.
 
I appreciate the honest answers. To this point in our business we have marketed on a shoe string. Here on lrh and a little other stuff. Really pretty much here. Our marketing has basically spread by word of mouth. Best kind there is. It has spread from this great forum to all the other forums out there. I suppose we have customers that very vocal about our bullets. I'm sure they wouldn't be so vocal if they were kinda satisfied with our product. In the end I think there could be much worse problems.

On that note we don't pay anyone to promote our product not even with product. The only one we have hired is Ed @Zen Archery. We recently hired him to push out social media for us. In the past we gave him bullets to use for his videos but never asked him to let us approve his reviews. We have given bullets to people to test for us when we don't have a shooting platform to do it our selves. But that's it. No hired guns. Anyone promoting Hammers is self motivated.
 
Steve,
I've been shooting Barnes sense the Barnes X. I now using the TTSX. Until just recently I've never lost a deer with Barnes. It put him on the ground just like every other shot. But that one got up and got outta there, never to be found.
165gr ttsx from a 300WM.
I can't say it was the bullet that's at fault. I'm sure I just missed the spot.
Convince me why I should use your bullet, other than Barnes are in short supply.
 
I appreciate the honest answers. To this point in our business we have marketed on a shoe string. Here on lrh and a little other stuff. Really pretty much here. Our marketing has basically spread by word of mouth. Best kind there is. It has spread from this great forum to all the other forums out there. I suppose we have customers that very vocal about our bullets. I'm sure they wouldn't be so vocal if they were kinda satisfied with our product. In the end I think there could be much worse problems.

On that note we don't pay anyone to promote our product not even with product. The only one we have hired is Ed @Zen Archery. We recently hired him to push out social media for us. In the past we gave him bullets to use for his videos but never asked him to let us approve his reviews. We have given bullets to people to test for us when we don't have a shooting platform to do it our selves. But that's it. No hired guns. Anyone promoting Hammers is self motivated.
And that is what I have always understood/assumed was the case. I haven't seen any commercials (though I don't have tv) or heavy advertising direct from hammer, only threads specific to hammer promoting new bullets, which of course, there is nothing wrong with and welcomed. The heavy push comes from some very passionate customers. And from what I have seen, Ed does a good job at striking a good balance of promoting, while not being in your face about it, like we have seen in other aspects of advertising in the firearms industry, so good job @Zen Archery!

As I stated, much of what I believe people end up getting frustrated with is likely out of your control, which is the bickering and arguing from both sides of the fence on hammer bullets. In the end (in my opinion), it really isn't your problem to try to fix or get involved with, you only make the projectiles, in the years past I don't generally see you getting involved in the arguments that occasionally happen here. From a business standpoint, that is likely the best plan, it shows restraint, maturity, and confidence in your product, and earns you respect. For instance, Len does not engage in arguments on this forum, even if directed at him, he only gets involved when he needs to, and the proof that works is the success of this forum and the respect he has from all of us here. If you make a good bullet, it will defend itself, as has been seen by your business success and growth, without expensive marketing campaigns and television hunting show sponsors.
 
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