My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.

[Wedgy]

The 'shedding petal' thing seems to be unique (among copper bullets) to the Hammers. This leads us to 'cavitation' which is a subset of Hydraulic shock.

Cutting Edge Bullets lose their petals also, this is from the MTH;
"These bullets do not mushroom, but instead, fracture. After 1-2" of penetration, 3-4 petals will break off and radiate outward from the main wound channel about 2-3" creating massive trauma. They will expand down to 1600fps"
The Lazer line claims to expand down to 1,200 fps;
" These bullets do not mushroom, but instead, fracture. After 1-2" of penetration, 3 large petals will break off and radiate outward in a star pattern while the base continues through for even deeper penetration. Our Lazer line will expand down to 1200fps."

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

The closest thing to a mono that I've used is a Nosler Partition. From my understanding alot of times the front half of the Nosler partition with actually break off and only the shank will travel through much like a Hammer would with its petals. I believe the same happened with the 2 I used the 7mm 150 and the 6.5 125 and with both bullets there performance was not very impressive. 7mm and 6.5 entry's, with not much bigger exits. Ever since then I switched to bullets such as the old A-max, eld-m, berger, etc and haven't looked back. The performance I've seen from those has way out performed and traditional hunting bullet in my experience. Nothing makes it out of sight with the typical travel distance less than 20 yards as long as the bullet goes where it needs to.

 

[xsn10s]

The Partition design "sluffs off" or fragments the front section during expansion. Depending on the velocity it'll either mushroom like a traditional mushroom expansion or fragment off like the high fragmenting bullets. Old John A wasn't happy when the traditional cup and core failed to penetrate on a bull so he created the Partition to transfer energy with the front section and yet penetrate with the rear core which was tough enough to not fragment at all. The rear section is intended to completely penetrate depending on the velocity of impact.

 

[Petey308]

Ye Sir it does and I'm impressed with your answer and you are 100% correct, I was a hardcore cup and core guy and long story short I switched............ For a reason to Barnes which did quit well and now to Hammers, I'd really like to have a civil discussion without everyone saying I'm beating the Hammer drum if your up for it, if not I'll yield, No worries either way

I guess I know now for next time to say, "nah, make you're own post" . Just teasing.

No hard feelings from me. It's been good to share experiences. I'm obviously not well known or up on all the posts in this forum. I've been a member for a few years though. My assumption was based on the title of the forum, and my posts and experiences are geared more towards long range specifically. I agree the mass majority of hunters do not hunt long ranges, but there are indeed a ton that do, any many stay off the internet, which I applaud them for lol. All that said, not everything discussed as long range translates to shorter ranges, and not everything discussed at shorter ranges translates to long range. Perhaps I misread the audience here or made the wrong assumption. I know for next time.

I made this particular post because it was requested. I agreed to discuss Hammers as they applied to the theme or main subject matter of the post. It seems they then turned into the main topic henceforth. They weren't the only bullets mentioned though. I think the main point about them has been well established though, and it has since come to my attention this sort of thing tends to happen a lot in this forum. I'm not implying anything by that either, it's just an observation.

I just wanted to share my own person thoughts and insight. I'm not pushing anything one way or the other. I don't want egos attached to anything either. I definitely try to keep from having an ego myself. I don't know… just some continued thoughts is all.

I wish every hunter continued success out there, with whatever cartridge and bullet you're using and at whatever range you engage. I hope this thread has inspired some new thoughts in others and expanded your knowledge. I know I've taken away a lot of good things and have made several notes myself. I do intend to start trying out Hamners myself, as I think I'd be wrong not to at this point. I will certainly try them with the recommendations and advice given here as well, and make my own observations and add them to my experiences and research.

 

[Petey308]

The closest thing to a mono that I've used is a Nosler Partition. From my understanding alot of times the front half of the Nosler partition with actually break off and only the shank will travel through much like a Hammer would with its petals. I believe the same happened with the 2 I used the 7mm 150 and the 6.5 125 and with both bullets there performance was not very impressive. 7mm and 6.5 entry's, with not much bigger exits. Ever since then I switched to bullets such as the old A-max, eld-m, berger, etc and haven't looked back. The performance I've seen from those has way out performed and traditional hunting bullet in my experience. Nothing makes it out of sight with the typical travel distance less than 20 yards as long as the bullet goes where it needs to.

Nosler partitions do have a tendency to produce that result. Having essentially two cores, separated my a partition of copper, the nose tends yo expand and sometimes shed away and leave just the base.

I've seen nothing but amazing performance from AMAX, ELDM, Berger Hybrids, and TMKs as well, when selected properly and placed well (just as an added disclaimer).

Here's some examples of Partitions:

 

[Petey308]

The Partition design "sluffs off" or fragments the front section during expansion. Depending on the velocity it'll either mushroom like a traditional mushroom expansion or fragment off like the high fragmenting bullets. Old John A wasn't happy when the traditional cup and core failed to penetrate on a bull so he created the Partition to transfer energy with the front section and yet penetrate with the rear core which was tough enough to not fragment at all. The rear section is intended to completely penetrate depending on the velocity of impact.

That's exactly right. And for what it's worth, I did post another write-up that mentions things like this too. Here's the link to it:

Selecting a Hunting Bullet

Selecting a Hunting Bullet When it comes to selecting a hunting bullet, and contrary to popular belief, bullet weight and/or retained energy isn't the all-deciding factor on penetration and overall terminal performance. Actually, it all depends greatly on how the bullet is constructed, the...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[Canhunter35]

Let's talk trash about accubonds for bit? Any takers? Or maybe how Hornady can't get a bullets bc consistent from one lot to the next excluding a-tips.
Thoughts?

 

[Petey308]

Let's talk trash about accubonds for bit? Any takers? Or maybe how Hornady can't get a bullets bc consistent from one lot to the next excluding a-tips.
Thoughts?

I think maybe it could be a good separate post

 

[Canhunter35]

I think maybe it could be a good separate post

Haha! Maybe…I just don't know anymore?

 

[Petey308]

Haha! Maybe…I just don't know anymore?

I can understand your confusion lol

 

[xsn10s]

I'm confused about being confused.

 

[fordy]

No need to quote anyone or anything I just see the same old dance around the subject where credibility would be earned if the facts were relayed correctly

The simple facts are same placement , same animal species same projectile ( yes frangible & I'll actually go multiples of them as some darn good ones ) impacted @ 2400 vrs 1500 the animal drops on AVERAGE quicker from the higher velocity & that can be seen through ea & every projectile in its ideal range you cross that line & performance suffers

No mention of the taboo word & honestly We can't give that information yet as We haven't got a large enough base of animals to compare notes on & velocity bracket preformance but I'm around a 1/3 of the way there to a 1000 ( my base for a specific brand then I like @ least 20 to start notes & consistent data starts @ a 100 animals ) but now include other people's observations & I'm pretty sure I know what HAMMERS the animal more consistently over a wide variety of angles well in my world & a lot of others

Ea has its place

Have a good day gentlemen I'm going back to my rabbit hole
Best of luck to everyone
Shoot straight & stay safe
Cheers

 

[bamban]

@Petey308, being a military guy, what is your opinion about the M855A1 on deer size game at short range. They shoot real well for GI ammo, much better than the M855s. They are solids behind that penetrator tip. And, higher velocity than the green tips, while both being 62 grains

 

[mercerbear]

@Petey308, being a military guy, what is your opinion about the M855A1 on deer size game at short range. They shoot real well for GI ammo, much better than the M855s. They are solids behind that penetrator tip. And, higher velocity than the green tips, while both being 62 grains

In all sincerity, please let me know if you need a box of ammo for hunting and I will send it to you.

I have some 62 gr Gold Dots that would work in your 223, if that's what you're running.