30-06 over 308

[rustyshackleford]

I

Okay In the spirit of friendly argument lets open this can of worms all the way. First, let me say I am an 06 fan. It is the Jack of all trades, Scottsdale pickup truck of the gun world. That said, I think the 308 is a more efficient cartridge as well as the 300WM on the other side of it. There is a reason the US military choose the 308 over the 3006 and still use it as their primary sniper rifle along with the 300WM. There is also a reason most competitive bench rest shooters for years have chosen 308 based cases rather than 06. You can push a 220gr 308 at 2500-2550fps again about 100 to 150 fps less with far less powder. On the other side of that the 300WM can push a 215gr berger at 2850 and stay supersonic beyond a mile. This is what I run in my personal gun, a 27" sako, shoots 1/2 moa @ 100 and 1/3-1/4 moa to 1250. Those are the averages of a 10shot group at varying yards with more than 300 rounds through the gun. Anything an 06 can do a 308 can do almost as well and more efficiently and a 300WM can do significantly better. Because the original poster ask if he should consider an 06 when he already owns two 308's I said no but to consider a 300WM. In full disclosure 300WM is my personal favorite do it all long range big game cartridge and the one I own now is one of the most accurate I have ever owned. Again just my opinion and experience.

I will say I agree that he should probably get a 300 WM or 338 WM so he gets a significant bump in performance but can still find ammo. However, throwing out efficiency as an argument against the 30-06 is silly if you handload. Efficiency is nothing more than operating pressure, a well matched powder, and a sleek bullet. A 30-06 can probably come very close to matching your 300 WM load with RL 26 and a 24-26 inch barrel. If you handload a 30-06 and load it like you would modern cartridge the efficiency argument is moot. With RL-16 and a 200 sgk I'm getting 2685 ft/sec with zero pressure signs from a 22 inch barrel. I could probably run it up 50-100 ft/sec faster but I don't care to chase that. This is why my next step up in firepower is a 416 rem mag. Any non dangerous game will fall to that 06 load inside out to 500 yards.

 

[DMP25-06]

I have the video. It was just a stander 7 MM Rem Mag. 3025 FPS 180 Berger Bullet 26" Barrel. Retumbo powder.

My mistake sir .

 

[TexasSportsman]

I think the OP ought to take a .300WM and two boxes of ammo to the range and shoot out to 300yds to get a good feel of that caliber. I've seen 300WM get traded in at a higher rate than others due to recoil.

 

[Stgraves260]

My mistake sir .

Your fine sir.

 

[Stgraves260]

I think the OP ought to take a .300WM and two boxes of ammo to the range and shoot out to 300yds to get a good feel of that caliber. I've seen 300WM get traded in at a higher rate than others due to recoil.

Yes sir I agree. I believe a lot of people buy in to the hype that a 300 WM is need. I would thank that most shots buy an average hunter is taken within 200 yards, maybe even a 100 yards. When I used to guide, the boss man would all ways tell use no one alloyed to shoot past 200 yards. (( Have to follow the rules )) I never new what type of person I was gonna take out that day. Some people are very interesting. Would take them to the range and get a feel for them and to see how they shoot. They would go on and tell me how their 300 WM can shoot a deer at a mile. I would tell them well sir/mam, you just shot a 3 shot 3.5" to 4" group at 100 yards so I thank we will keep you at the 100 yards mark. I would show them pictures on where to shoot the deer so there would be no misunderstanding. Some shot were good, But sadly most were not. When they would get a good shoulder or heart/lung shot it would destroy so much meet then the hunter would get mad at me because I told him/her where to shoot. I had one hunter shoot a 12 point buck in the face. His excuse was it hurts when he pulls the trigger. He was no longer allowed on the Hunting Lease.

 

[Goldengun]

I would say go substantially bigger or smaller if you like the 308's you have. If you don't, semi custom one of those. Unless you already have many others.

 

[Paladin300]

I will say I agree that he should probably get a 300 WM or 338 WM so he gets a significant bump in performance but can still find ammo. However, throwing out efficiency as an argument against the 30-06 is silly if you handload. Efficiency is nothing more than operating pressure, a well matched powder, and a sleek bullet. A 30-06 can probably come very close to matching your 300 WM load with RL 26 and a 24-26 inch barrel. If you handload a 30-06 and load it like you would modern cartridge the efficiency argument is moot. With RL-16 and a 200 sgk I'm getting 2685 ft/sec with zero pressure signs from a 22 inch barrel. I could probably run it up 50-100 ft/sec faster but I don't care to chase that. This is why my next step up in firepower is a 416 rem mag. Any non dangerous game will fall to that 06 load inside out to 500 yards.

Okay Rusty I hear your argument and again my point has never been to say the 308 is better or even equal to the 06. The op's question was should I build an 06 or something else if I already own 2 308's? Again, just my opinion but my answer was something else if you are going to hunt game the size of elk at extended ranges. As to efficiency that has to do with the amount of powder needed to accomplish a given end result not weather you can make it shoot accurately or not. Any caliber can be made to shoot accurately at 100 yards with the right ammo combination. Point in case we are working up loads for a 338 RUM/edge right now. This gun despises factory ammo. Haven't found a thing it likes that will shoot less than 2 inches, but run 300gr Bergers out to the lands and put 88grs of H1000 behind it and it makes nice little holes that you have to stare at really hard to tell that there is more than 2 or three shots in there. Tighter than quarter moa. That is a problem for me. One we are trying to take this gun to ranges beyond 2200 yrds. Two It is also a hunting rifle for bears and I need it to shot factory ammo. It will do neither well, but it is a shooter for sure. Here is the problem. In order to make it shoot the bullets need to be loaded out to a coal just under 4", thus making it a single shot, not good for bears. We have loaded it with 92gr. of H1000 with no, I mean not one pressure sign, but it won't hold a 11/2 inch group. This is a custom gun on a Remington action with a 30" bartlein barrel. At 88gr it is shooting 2690fps at 92gr it is up around 2800 which keeps us supersonic beyond 2200 yards, 2690 does not. This gun is not effecient for its intended purposes. My 300 win mag will out perform it with a 27" barrel. The win mag is not as fast or as powerful as the 338 but is far more efficient and can accomplish the same task within reason. Get the point I am trying to make. The question again was if I own a 308 should I build an 06. No go 300WM! All of that said, if I could only own one gun it might just well be a 30-06 or something built off that case 270, 280 Ackley etc... At no point in time did I intend to throw off nor did I discredit the storied 06. It is a great cartridge as is the 308. If you go back and read my original post you will see that. Hope this clears up my argument and any apparent confusion I have caused. Blessings!

 

[rbTanzan]

>416 rem mag

As you wish, but the 416Ruger does it in a smaller platform. And handloaded 416Rigbys are off the charts, over 6000ft#.

Now back to the 30 caliber thread.

 

[BPollard]

If you decide to go with the 300 rsaum I've got 100 pieces of once fired brass I'd make ya a deal on

I'll take the brass

 

[greenejc]

You'll get what you want, but the 30-06 is superior to the .308 in several respects. A 20 inch barrel in the -06 will duplicate and exceed velocities of the .308 with a 24 inch barrel in the same bullet weights. It has always been capable of 1000+ shots with 173 and heavier (up to 200 grain) bullets, even if it gets there slower than the fast 7mms and it has always been very accurate with the 4350 and 4831 classes of powders. It has always had a recoil impetus that is low enough for the shooter to master it. It has been around since 1906 for a reason. It just works. It is the .308 Winchester on steroids, and has always been. I get 2770fps from my -03A3 with 180 grain Speer or Sierras with 55.0 grains of IMR 4350, 0.7 inch 5 shot groups, and recoil low enough to shoot 40 and 50 rounds in a range session. With the new powders, that velocity goes up by about 100 fps. A 200 grain bullet clocks 2650 from this rifle, and will do about 100fps more with RL26, or Superformance. I think it gains about 75fps with StaBall 6.5, too. And a 200 grain bullet hits very hard even at 1000 yards.

 

[greenejc]

I think the OP ought to take a .300WM and two boxes of ammo to the range and shoot out to 300yds to get a good feel of that caliber. I've seen 300WM get traded in at a higher rate than others due to recoil.

So have I. It kicks pretty good.

 

[Stgraves260]

Okay Rusty I hear your argument and again my point has never been to say the 308 is better or even equal to the 06. The op's question was should I build an 06 or something else if I already own 2 308's? Again, just my opinion but my answer was something else if you are going to hunt game the size of elk at extended ranges. As to efficiency that has to do with the amount of powder needed to accomplish a given end result not weather you can make it shoot accurately or not. Any caliber can be made to shoot accurately at 100 yards with the right ammo combination. Point in case we are working up loads for a 338 RUM/edge right now. This gun despises factory ammo. Haven't found a thing it likes that will shoot less than 2 inches, but run 300gr Bergers out to the lands and put 88grs of H1000 behind it and it makes nice little holes that you have to stare at really hard to tell that there is more than 2 or three shots in there. Tighter than quarter moa. That is a problem for me. One we are trying to take this gun to ranges beyond 2200 yrds. Two It is also a hunting rifle for bears and I need it to shot factory ammo. It will do neither well, but it is a shooter for sure. Here is the problem. In order to make it shoot the bullets need to be loaded out to a coal just under 4", thus making it a single shot, not good for bears. We have loaded it with 92gr. of H1000 with no, I mean not one pressure sign, but it won't hold a 11/2 inch group. This is a custom gun on a Remington action with a 30" bartlein barrel. At 88gr it is shooting 2690fps at 92gr it is up around 2800 which keeps us supersonic beyond 2200 yards, 2690 does not. This gun is not effecient for its intended purposes. My 300 win mag will out perform it with a 27" barrel. The win mag is not as fast or as powerful as the 338 but is far more efficient and can accomplish the same task within reason. Get the point I am trying to make. The question again was if I own a 308 should I build an 06. No go 300WM! All of that said, if I could only own one gun it might just well be a 30-06 or something built off that case 270, 280 Ackley etc... At no point in time did I intend to throw off nor did I discredit the storied 06. It is a great cartridge as is the 308. If you go back and read my original post you will see that. Hope this clears up my argument and any apparent confusion I have caused. Blessings!

The guy who owns the company is a member of this forum, and the information on their website is that all the Hammers produce lower pressures at standard velocities, and can achieve 100 to 200 fps more velocity with comparable pressures. The -06 as a 300 WSM or a medium velocity 300 WinMag. I like the idea.

thank you sir for sharing the info.

 

[greenejc]

Hello all as title says I've been thanking about buying a Remington 700 adl in 30-06 to do my first semi custom rifle build and my question is is there really a need for a 30-06 if I already have 2 308s I do have everything but brass to load for a 30-06 but up to 175 grain bullets what can a 30-06 give me over my 308 for whitetailto elk.if I do not buy a 30-06 I will most likely try to find a 300 wm or 300 wsm. Thanks in advance

I reviewed your question again, and I'd say there isn't really a need, but if you get/make one, you'll really like it. I shoot and own five of them, and they're just fun to shoot. Especially when I'm ringing steel at 400 to 600 yards and its hitting harder and more accurately than some of the high dollar precision rifles in the newer cartridges. But I'm also in love with the .35 Whelen in a modern(M700 Action) platform, and its also pretty old school.

 

[Stgraves260]

I don't know if this will help the gentleman who got this started 308 or 30-06. Here is some info that might help. Factory Hornady ammo 308 178 grain ELDX 2600 FPS still retains just over 1200 ft lbs of energy at 700 yards and the 1800 FPS Hornady claims is needed for proper bullet Expansion. ((This is adequate for elk)) The chances of a shot presenting itself this far is pretty slim. But it can happen. If you all ready have 2 308s then I would suggest 7 Mag or larger or go down to a 6.5 cal. Another option would be to invest on a good set of optics and the equipment needed to take shots like this on a live target. Dont get caught up on the caliber Of the rifle. Stay more focused on the ft lbs of kinetic energy that is needed for what you are shooting. Also stay focused on the FPS that is needed for proper bullet expansion. Hope this helps with your decision.