Shorter barreled rifles and un-burnt powder

[BrentM]

Short barrels and short fat cases with medium and faster burn rate powders seem to work well. My PRC is not that short but it works well with a 22". I wanted a 20 but proof only offered 22 in a prefit. I'd def do a short barrel prc and run a 130-140 bullet.

Remage is good to go. Built a couple. Very happy with NSS, criterion. I think it's a great idea for what you want to do.

 

[jrock]

I've shot a few magnums, WSM, and even a 338 NM in barrel lengths shorter than 18". The sound is substantially louder than a 24" or 26" barrel. The 338 NM had the ears ringing even with double ear protection. Would never shoot one of these without ear protection, even for one shoot.

The lighter bullets and the faster powder recommendations sounds good to me. Never tried that but most factory ammo appears to be loaded for lighter bullets. A viable route as well.

 

[koja]

This 100% spot on.

 

[koja]

18"260 gr 375 raptor makes a 308 case very efficient.A 300gr 375/6.5 prc 18" anyone?

 

[sable tireur]

He absolutely is doing well and provides a valuable service, I have two NSS builds that shoot very well. The 260 I have with a 20" barrel shoots in the two's, I guess someone could argue that they would have built it more accurate then that but I would say maybe maybe not

As with most topics, I was not trying to be contentious but I do try to provide alternative information for those who might benefit from it. So unless you're intent is to curtail information useful to the forum community, other opinions still count whether they meet your approval or not.

None of us wants to lumped into a single, generalized category, we all want to be the exception to the rule and the generalities, to stand out.

What he sells is only a very small part of what should be done to Remington receivers. So rather than mislead a potential buyer, I suggested using a source who covers all the points of accurizing rather than just a couple. I believe in educated buyers.

I was not maligning the supplier. Reading is fundamental.

We all have levels of satisfaction where we are comfortable without the need for improvement. Not all of us need $3,000 scopes to hunt once a year. That's why there is a range costs for services through the long list of suppliers. Shopping these costs and the suppliers guarantees satisfaction for the buyer.

Enjoy your day!

 

[Ingwe]

Do yourself a favor and skip this idea. Either buy an accurized action from another source or buy an action and have it accurized (the full boat) by a gunsmith. This will cost you few dollars more but you'll get what you need right from the start.

Just wondering why you are saying this??
I have 2 rifles with Criterion barrels that I headspaced and installed myself on trued Remage actions, all from Northlands, and they all shoot clusters at 100 yards with handloads

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Brozonelayer, I think your idea is good and hope you try a remage and see what you think. As you can see many members on here deal with James at NSS and do well with his parts. I have dealt with him for many years and gotten actions, barrels, stocks, bolt handles, barrel nuts as well as those rifle basix 2 triggers he turned me on to at one point. Lot of fun assembling your own rifle from pieces and setting it up yourself. Far as short barrels go, I wouldn't build a deer rifle up where I hunt with more than a 20-22" barrel. Thick understory with tree stand climbs favor a short gun, I use 4350 and RL15 with no problems. Good Shooting and Building

 

[Paper boy]

I've seen a few posts where someone asks about a shorter barreled rifle, say 18"-22", and others bring up not burning up all the powder. I'd like to better understand the reason to avoid un-burnt powder. Is it because its wasteful (of powder), makes it louder, or more fire/blast out of the muzzle, or something else? Of course the shorter barrel will lose velocity over the typical 24"-28".

I ask because I'm interested in building a 16", maybe 18", hunting rifle. I've been thinking about using the 6.5 PRC since I've read about a few shorter 6.5 CM builds. I own a 24" 6.5 PRC now and like it enough. Used it an an Aoudad and it worked well. The 16" rifle would be used mostly on coues deer, mule deer, maybe antelope but not elk (I'm hoping to get elk done with a bow next). Max shot would be out to 600yds but more likely 300-400yds.
I've used a 18" .243 on an antelope, a 26" 7 RM on a bull elk and I have a 22" 300 WM with a Sandman-L suppressor on it I shoot steel out to 1,000yds with. I've had a few other rifles as well. I've handloaded in the past for rifle and pistol but want to stick with factory ammo on this one.

I understand the velocity may go from 2900 to 2500 from 26" to 16". I understand I'm effectively turning a "magnum" into a non-magnum. I understand there may/will be un-burnt powder. What I don't understand is what is wrong with that? I don't expect anyone to be gentle, I've got thick enough skin but please provide what you consider to be useful information. I'm open to have my mind changed but not if your answer is "just shoot a 24" barrel". If the suggestion is to use a different round I'd understand that. I expect some would say 7mm-08 or .308 but is that just so I don't have un-burnt powder? If someone shoots a 6.5 CM out of an 18" barrel and then also used the 6.5 PRC in the same rifle setup (other than chambering), wouldn't you still be achieving higher velocity out of the same barrel length? I'm sure I'm missing something here since many, most, if not all of you are more knowledgeable than I, so I'm thankful for any help or guidance.

My plan is to buy a trued Remington action from Northland Shooters Supply along with the remage barrel nut and recoil lug. I would then buy a 16" remage carbon fiber barrel. I was considering the XLR magnesium folder stock but may go with a Manners or McMillan.

Any insight is appreciated!

One thing you need to understand. All of the powder is not burned in the case. When a bullet is fired it creates a great deal of compression in the barrel, compression causes heat. Some of the powder is burned in the barrel behind the bullet under that compression. In a longer barrel, the bullet stays in the barrel for a longer time (micro seconds for sure) and takes more advantage of the barrel compression (pressure) which gives the bullet greater volicity. With a high BC bullet and a longer barrel you get both higher volicity and a more stable flying bullet provided that you twist rate is high enough for the weight bullet your using. I know this is long winded, but thats how it goes.

 

[sable tireur]

sable tireur said:

Do yourself a favor and skip this idea. Either buy an accurized action from another source or buy an action and have it accurized (the full boat) by a gunsmith. This will cost you few dollars more but you'll get what you need right from the start.

Just wondering why you are saying this??
I have 2 rifles with Criterion barrels that I headspaced and installed myself on trued Remage actions, all from Northlands, and they all shoot clusters at 100 yards with handloads

First and most important, it is extremely important to carefully read the information that posters write. In this instance I said NOTHING about building your own rifle or the quality of self-built rifles at all. Most of the disagreement leads to bragging about what you built. Great!

The point of my disagreement is the 'accurizing' offered by this supplier. It is the very minimum offered by anyone in the industry and I suggested that the Original Poster could get a better, more complete accurizing process from another source. This is all stated in the quote which you then quoted and asked about. It's a simple concept.

I then went on to explain this very same concept again when another poster didn't read what I wrote. This is about the degree of accurizing and not about the self-builds.

Each and everyone of us is entitled to our opinion and if your opinion is that you are satisfied with work and parts available the supplier, I'm with you, not against you. But I'm still entitled to my opinion whether it meets your perceived degree of quality and acceptance or not. I think the dedication to a supplier is admirable. I understand he's a nice man, that's simply not what this opinion is about at all.

Now, I've beat this poor horse to death twice and it does not bare repeating again.

Have a great day! Stay safe and healthy in this time of being tested.

 

[ATH]

I've re-barreled numerous factory, unmodified Rem700 actions with Remage barrels. I have yet to be disappointed in the result. Unless you are building a competition rifle, your plan is sound.

 

[Brozonelayer]

Ok after feedback on here and having some additional conversations (thanks!) it sounds like the 308 case family is something to look into for more efficient powder use. Rather than a 7mm-08, I'd like to stick with the 6.5 for this build... so the 260 is looking like it would be less of a muzzle fireball than the 6.5 PRC (even though a fireball wouldn't necessarily deter me but efficiency does make sense).

Is there anything I'm missing here if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC? It appears I would loose about 170fps with a bullet around 140gr. That's not a small amount but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it? What else am I giving up? Any other thoughts to share?

I really do appreciate everyone's insight here and I thought I would catch a lot more flak than I did so thanks for being both courteous and helpful!

 

[BrentM]

I wouldn't consider the 260 when you can get a improved case such as the creed or lapau. I can't answer the question about a 16" vs the burn but a prc is close to 60 grains powder in a 130-140 range vs a creed or 260 at 40. The prc is probably too inefficient and blowing energy out the end but I don't actually know for a fact. Heck at this point you could even consider a 6mm variant with 105-110 grain bullets.

 

[Ingwe]

https://www.longrangehunting.com/goto/post?id=1888388



First and most important, it is extremely important to carefully read the information that posters write. In this instance I said NOTHING about building your own rifle or the quality of self-built rifles at all. Most of the disagreement leads to bragging about what you built. Great!

The point of my disagreement is the 'accurizing' offered by this supplier. It is the very minimum offered by anyone in the industry and I suggested that the Original Poster could get a better, more complete accurizing process from another source. This is all stated in the quote which you then quoted and asked about. It's a simple concept.

I then went on to explain this very same concept again when another poster didn't read what I wrote. This is about the degree of accurizing and not about the self-builds.

Each and everyone of us is entitled to our opinion and if your opinion is that you are satisfied with work and parts available the supplier, I'm with you, not against you. But I'm still entitled to my opinion whether it meets your perceived degree of quality and acceptance or not. I think the dedication to a supplier is admirable. I understand he's a nice man, that's simply not what this opinion is about at all.

Now, I've beat this poor horse to death twice and it does not bare repeating again.

Have a great day! Stay safe and healthy in this time of being tested.

Sable, I don't think that I have been scolded like this since 3rd grade....either that or you are having a bad day. Then again I see that you scolded Savage 12 so maybe it IS just you....

I usually just ignore it when someone is condescending, arrogant, and/or high-handed with me but what the hell, I'll bite. Simply put, you steered the OP away from the option of a Remage action and implied that if he bought an aftermarket action job done by a "gunsmith" that he would, "Get what you need from the start." As a matter of conversation and curiosity, I then asked you why you said what you said and went on to tell you of my success with my Remage and Criterion barrel.....PERIOD.

I guess that you are the type of guy who doesn't like to be questioned or second guessed but since I had good success with Remage/Criterion, I was wondering what you think that a person had to gain by going the whole custom route....again I have 2 rifles with that setup shooting CLUSTERS at 100 yards. I don't know how much better it gets than THAT.

Then again I'm no expert so what do I know...

 

[Coldfinger]

Just wondering why you are saying this??
I have 2 rifles with Criterion barrels that I headspaced and installed myself on trued Remage actions, all from Northlands, and they all shoot clusters at 100 yards with handloads

I've got a 22 creedmoor RemAge barrel from NSS and it shoots great. I have Pacnor RemAge, and Carbon six RemAge that shoots lights out!!!! A trued Remington action is an affordable way to start. I've got standard Remington actions Trued Remington and Stiller and can't tell an accuracy difference with handloads when I do my part. Just found out today playing with parallax on my Zeiss 6-25x tgat my heartbeat is 1/2 moa now days. I just enjoy getting all the parts to a rifle and making her shoot, but when it's all figured out I get bored and start thinking. I have 3 full custom rifles built by Oregunsmithing but there's just something satisfying about building your own!!