Working up a VLD load. Which step first?

pyle762

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I am new to the forum but have been lurking for a while. I have a 6.5 x 284 Savage LRH. My 140 grain Bergers are in the mail. I have a few podwers I am going to start with, R22 and Magpro. I am new to Berger VLD's and the 6.5 x 284. This rifle will be strictly for hunting.

My question is which would I be better of doing first. Should I figure how far of the lands my gun shoots best at with a middle of the road velocity load or work up a safe load using one of the powers and then fine tune the seating depth? Thanks for the help and the great info on the site.
 
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There are as many styles for working up loads as there are components for assembling all the pieces to create the finished product.
I can only offer you an outline of how I approach it.
I first create a series of test loads with the powder of choice that vary by .3 grains and seat them all about .20 off the lands. When I find the load that offers the best five round group results on target I work on seating depth. I may try tweaking it with .01 grain adjustments, depending on results, but only if it's a competition load.
This method routinely gives me the results I'm looking for with the fewest number of rounds (and therefore lower cost) than some of the other methods which, while they work just as well, often require greater investment and don't provide any better data for my load development work.
 
I am new to the forum but have been lurking for a while. I have a 6.5 x 284 Savage LRH. My 140 grain Bergers are in the mail. I have a few podwers I am going to start with, R22 and Magpro. I am new to Berger VLD's and the 6.5 x 284. This rifle will be strictly for hunting.

My question is which would I be better of doing first. Should I figure how far of the lands my gun shoots best at with a middle of the road velocity load or work up a safe load using one of the powers and then fine tune the seating depth? Thanks for the help and the great info on the site.

There is a sticky in the reloading forum here that is specifically about how to work up loads for VLDs. I found it very helpful and I took the advice to work distance from lands first and then powder charge after determining which seating depth gave you the best groups.

If you got the hybrids... They are not as sensitive to seating depth...as reported by other forum members... And I have found this to be the case as well. If you are using the VLD Hunting bullets, then you might find this link to be invaluable! My VLD hunting rounds turned out wonderful to shoot and my deer this year didn't move an inch after a single round hit its vitals. Impressed so far!

Good luck & welcome to the forum!! I love the VLDs gun)

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...accuracy-berger-vld-bullets-your-rifle-40204/
 
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I have a Savage LRH 7mm Rem Mag that I reload 168 gr hunting VLD's for. I started out with the maximum overall length that would fit in the mag and started at max powder charge and worked down .2 grains at a time. Didn't take me long to find a winner.
 
There are as many styles for working up loads as there are components for assembling all the pieces to create the finished product.
I can only offer you an outline of how I approach it.
I first create a series of test loads with the powder of choice that vary by .3 grains and seat them all about .20 off the lands. When I find the load that offers the best five round group results on target I work on seating depth. I may try tweaking it with .01 grain adjustments, depending on results, but only if it's a competition load.
This method routinely gives me the results I'm looking for with the fewest number of rounds (and therefore lower cost) than some of the other methods which, while they work just as well, often require greater investment and don't provide any better data for my load development work.
This is similar to what I've always done.

I only shoot 3 rds groups though.

I start with a middle of the road charge working up .3 grains at a time till I hit a good accuracy node and then tweak the seating depth to find my most accurate load.

There are however lots of "right ways to do it".
 
I went through this process with my 6.5-284 LRH a few years ago with the 140 VLD's. I have found that with this and other rifles using VLD's that I will first use a recipe that is a grain or two lower than proven/published recipes and within 50-100FPS of the expected velocities. I will start with the VLD .010-.020" off the lands. If results look promisingI will then test seating in .020" increments to optimize. Once I get the tightest group, I will then increase charge and test. This was a very fast process with my 6.5-284 LRH to settle in on two good loads. Best powders proved to be H4831sc and Retumbo and optimum seating for the 140's, .075" off the lands. Retumbo gave the highest velocities. Interestingly, my other 6.5-284 shoots best with this seating depth and powders.
 
One additional thing you might want to keep in mind in working up a load.
You'll find a lot of today's shooters are fond of loading with seating depths that approach or even jam in to the lands. Some do find greater accuracy there; some don't.
I shoot with a hunter who just found that, with the new barrel on his 7STW, his most accurate loads (with five round groups forming one .35 moa hole in the target) wanted to be seated .175 off the lands.
Understanding that closer to the lands isn't always the answer can save a lot of frustration in working up new loads.
gun) --------------------
 
One additional thing you might want to keep in mind in working up a load.
You'll find a lot of today's shooters are fond of loading with seating depths that approach or even jam in to the lands. Some do find greater accuracy there; some don't.
I shoot with a hunter who just found that, with the new barrel on his 7STW, his most accurate loads (with five round groups forming one .35 moa hole in the target) wanted to be seated .175 off the lands.
Understanding that closer to the lands isn't always the answer can save a lot of frustration in working up new loads.
gun) --------------------

This is great advice to consider!
 
Thanks for all the advice. I will work on seating depth first then figure out an accurate powder charge. That will work well too because I would like to eventually try Retumbo but can't find it locally so I will use what I have on hand and see if that will shoot and give me 2950+ velocity.
 
New to reloading for rifles. What is the best way to figure out how far off the lands you are? I know very basic. But reloading for pistols I never had to worry about that.
 
Here's a good article on what you need to have to accurately measure where the lands are in your rifle, and the ogive to base length of your cartridges.


http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_precisely_200809/

Then... I usually start .020 from the lands... Then .040, .060, & .080. I make 6 rounds of each and shoot (2) 3 round groups with each to determine which is most accurate. At this point... You can usually then adjust seating depth by .005 increments until you find an even more accurate group... Or you can start working up powder loads to find a charge that is more accurate than others. I typically go in .5 grain increments and shoot (2) 6 shot groups... Until I find a load that is promising. If consistently .5" moa or less... I call it good. I'm using my rounds for hunting so I'm not inclined to have to find a load that bug holes all the time. If not .5" or less... I move down and up from my load in .2 grain increments.

Everybody has a different way of working up loads... But no matter what you choose to do...whether charging your powder, or prepping brass... Being consistent in what you do from one session to the next is critical in not making yourself crazy. If you aren't consistent in what you are doing... Then you'll find an awesome group and never be able to replicate it! Can make a person nuts!

Good luck and will be hoping for the best for you!

-James
 
I was told by an older gentlemen that I could insert an empty case with a bullet just barely inserted in the end. Chamber it and close the bolt. Unload it and measure to see what the length is. Then measure plus or minus a few thousands for accuracy. Does this work or is it just a hap hazard way to do it. I'll get the guage mentioned in the link. But I was curious.
 
I was told by an older gentlemen that I could insert an empty case with a bullet just barely inserted in the end. Chamber it and close the bolt. Unload it and measure to see what the length is. Then measure plus or minus a few thousands for accuracy. Does this work or is it just a hap hazard way to do it. I'll get the guage mentioned in the link. But I was curious.

This actually does work, but you have to get the neck tension just right, otherwise if the bullet is too loose, it just moves around... And/or the lands grab the bullet and pulls it out of the case or pulls it a little bit out as you draw the bolt back (which then gives an incorrect measurement. If you get the tension set firmly enough to grip the bullet, but still allow for it to push into the case without deformation of the bullet, or sticking into the lands, you'll be good to go. A lee collet neck die works great for this as you vary the neck tension by how much pressure you put on the press arm.
 
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I'll throw a couple things in here. An early reply in this thread said he starts with the max charge and works down. I would advise against that for safety reasons, because even though the "book maximum" has always ended up being safe for me so far, there is no guarantee that this will always be the case, and it is simply safer and more logical to start somewhere below max and gently work up. If you start getting pressure signs, you simply stop. But if you've already blown up the case/rifle/yourface..... Anyway, I have just finished (for the most part) load development of my 280AI, and here is how I did it this time (not the only method, and feel free to chose for yourself): Having measured the throat dimension to find the maximum COAL (using an ogive bearing comparator insert) I loaded a test batch using 5 rounds of each charge starting with 59.5gr of Retumbo behind Berger 168VLD hunting bullets, and increasing by 0.5gr for each group, all the way up to 63.5gr. Note: the maximum listed charge in the manual is 63.0gr, but with a longer COAL, it can take a little more charge weight to reach normal pressure/velocity in the same case. YOU DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK. I shot these rounds while doing the shoot/clean barrel break-in process, with each charge weight on a separate target. In virgin brass, the max book (63.0gr) shot the smallest group, with the "over-max" a close second. All other groups were noticeably larger. Next day, I loaded another test batch, all using 63.0gr, but with COAL as the variable, using Berger's suggested method of starting at longest possible, and moving back 0.040" at a time until SAAMI. This test was done with 6 rounds of each COAL, two three shot groups of each fired at separate targets. The longest COAL was the clear winner @ 0.338", with the next shorter being slightly larger @ 0.366", and progressively larger until SAAMI grouped 0.911". The average of all the test groups, best to worst, was 0.6278", so clearly I have a good barrel, and the load is working well. So far, 70 rounds expended to learn this much. Next, I took the once fired brass, measured headspace to set the reloading die to match with minimal bump to the shoulder (I use Redding competition shellholder, in this case the +.008") and loaded the 63.0gr charge as before, as well as the remaining virgin brass. Chrono testing showed 2960fps avg in virgin cases initially, but after passing 200 rounds fired through the barrel (I call that fully broken in) I re-tested velocity, using 3 samples: the remaining virgin loads, the once-fired @63.0gr, and the once-fired @63.5gr again. The virgins are now averaging 2973fps, the once-fireds @63.0 2992fps, and..... Final load spec is now 63.5gr @ the max COAL in partial re-sized brass, and running 3024fps avg according to the chrony and the tightest groups came from the highest charge. When I get back out to the 1000 yard range for Trajectory validation, that figure will probably go down just a bit, as I have found my chrony to be slightly optimistic in the past, but I am expecting it will still be right at 3000fps. My old 7RemMag was only slightly faster with the same bullet, so I am a happy camper. This is the simplest load development I have had with a new barrel so far, and maybe it can work for you too.
 
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