Why can’t we get good dies!
- Thread starter Rhovee
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Not really. Shooting, the ability to hunt and hit your target and the problems associated are as old as man. Some are presented as conundrums seeking assistance, others, such as the OP, seem like venting. Hence, my reply.
There have been some great responses here, and I am humbled by the wisdom shared. My hat off to them, and I apologize if I offended you with my remark.
Stiltsville
Banned
I'm scratching my head. If a case is .200" too long, you could never close the bolt. That's 2/10s of an INCH !
Perhaps you can provide a case drawing showing the measurement you are talking about.
IF Ryan answered the 6 questions, his problem could be addressed. As with so many internet posts, a statement is tossed out with no details or examples.
1000s of sets of dies are bought with people with 1000s of rifles, yet this problem only seems to exist here and cannot even be "splained" to the rest of us.
Perhaps the mysterious "Ryan" should buy this book and start on page one !
Perhaps you can provide a case drawing showing the measurement you are talking about.
IF Ryan answered the 6 questions, his problem could be addressed. As with so many internet posts, a statement is tossed out with no details or examples.
1000s of sets of dies are bought with people with 1000s of rifles, yet this problem only seems to exist here and cannot even be "splained" to the rest of us.
Perhaps the mysterious "Ryan" should buy this book and start on page one !
1) I think you need to reread and then reread again. No where does it say .200 excessive head space which is not even possible in a functioning rifle. The part of rifle brass that causes the click is roughly .200" above the bolt head. Look at your fired brass it is pretty clear.
2) Ryan did not ask you to diagnose any problem. He was simply asking why it is so hard to get dies that properly size.
3) The problem is very prevalent with the PRC cartridges but I see it with others. If you are not having issues I am not sure why your posting in this thread.
4) I doubt very seriously Ryan is going to learn anything from that book.
I am not really sure why Ryan posted this as I am sure he is aware the responses obtained were to be expected.
Stiltsville
Banned
So you are saying that on a rimless cartridge, a misfire is caused by the case head 2/10s above the back of the case ? That is the area generally known as the web. If the web is too large the cartridge will not chamber. If the web is too small (as is all factory ammo), the cartridge will still fire IF the headspace is correct.
He (mysterious Ryan) ( Your pal ?) has never really what the problem is.
Neither he nor you can describe in plain English, with examples, what this phantom problem unknown to anyone but Ryan.
He said: "I get clickers on most rifles after a few firings because the web isn't getting sized."
I assume a "clicker" is a misfire (???) The ONLY way to get a misfire in a rimless cartridge with good components, is excessive headspace in the rifle OR the cartridge shoulder pushed back.
As I pointed out, IF the head is too big you cannot chamber the cartridge.
I just cannot believe you are carrying the water for this BS post.
Seems like no one else can be bothered even commenting on such a comedy of errors !
This Ryan's problem as described in 100s of reloading books which he he and you have not read and understood !
"Basically, headspace is the measurement from the slope of the shoulder to the base of the cartridge, or the corresponding dimensions in the rifle chamber. Excessive chamber headspace allows the cartridge to be farther forward in the chamber away from the firing pin, or it can allow for the cartridge case to move forward when struck by the firing pin. Certainly, this can affect ignition reliability and cause misfires."
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CARTRIDGE HEAD DIMENSION !
He (mysterious Ryan) ( Your pal ?) has never really what the problem is.
Neither he nor you can describe in plain English, with examples, what this phantom problem unknown to anyone but Ryan.
He said: "I get clickers on most rifles after a few firings because the web isn't getting sized."
I assume a "clicker" is a misfire (???) The ONLY way to get a misfire in a rimless cartridge with good components, is excessive headspace in the rifle OR the cartridge shoulder pushed back.
As I pointed out, IF the head is too big you cannot chamber the cartridge.
I just cannot believe you are carrying the water for this BS post.
Seems like no one else can be bothered even commenting on such a comedy of errors !
This Ryan's problem as described in 100s of reloading books which he he and you have not read and understood !
"Basically, headspace is the measurement from the slope of the shoulder to the base of the cartridge, or the corresponding dimensions in the rifle chamber. Excessive chamber headspace allows the cartridge to be farther forward in the chamber away from the firing pin, or it can allow for the cartridge case to move forward when struck by the firing pin. Certainly, this can affect ignition reliability and cause misfires."
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CARTRIDGE HEAD DIMENSION !
Last edited:
No one said anything about a misfire other than you. If there is not enough clearance in the web to chamber wall you will get clickers and yes the cartridge will chamber just fine. I love how you are turning this into a "you can't describe in plain English" when it is clear you can not read. I don't have time to argue with someone who not only does not understand the mechanics beyond the issue being discussed but also can not read. Have a great day and enjoy your weekend.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
Why would you even need to size the web unless you are running over pressure? Everything I load expands just a thou or so over the first few firings then settles in... I don't even use small base dies with my 5.56mm AR... Also, your chamber reamer is NOT the correct reamer for cutting a resizing die. The resizing die needs to be a touch smaller...
both you guys seem to need to take a reading comprehension class and a simple English class.
the simple answer is to
BUY DIES FIRST
AND HAVE THE CHAMBER REAMER CUT TO MATCH THE SIZING DIE.
then they match
as far as 338 edge, my redding sizing die works fine in a custom throated chamber
the simple answer is to
BUY DIES FIRST
AND HAVE THE CHAMBER REAMER CUT TO MATCH THE SIZING DIE.
then they match
as far as 338 edge, my redding sizing die works fine in a custom throated chamber
Stiltsville
Banned
can someone "spalin" what a "clicker" is if it's NOT a misfire ?
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
With the two customs I've done I've spec'd the chamber to match my dies... I still ended up getting a bit shorter/ tighter throat on my 7rum than I expected, but it's still a saami chamber and the dies work fine. I just need to keep the powder charge down a good bit with the short throat. I suppose I could touch it up with a throating reamer, but I suspect 500 shots from now the rum will have done that on it's own...
Stiltsville
Banned
I have 2 dozen rifles and load ALL with off the shelf dies. Everyone goes bang when I pull the trigger and I'm sure my 338 RUM is just as accurate as you Edge.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing a hitch in the bolt when he's pulling the fired round... not sure, but why else would you have case web issues...
Nobody I have ever known has cut a reamer to match a die. That makes zero sense. The problem is that the tolerance stack has gotten out of hand and a tight SAAMI chamber does not get sized enough by a loose die plain and simple. I know and I am sure Ryan does too that we can get custom dies. That still does not answer the why? Why don't they just make dies that will actually size SAAMI Min chambers. This is all repeat of what Ryan said.
Stiltsville
Banned
I'm finding both Ryan and his water boy totally incomprehensible.
Neither can explain the problem, provide examples, or describe the the "clicker".
Until they can I'm calling BS and troll. Waste of bandwidth !
