When are gun manufacturers going to get it?

highdrum

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OMG, somebody actually said that aloud!
Have you shot a 195 in a saami rem mag? The ballistics vs a 180 Berger going 150fps faster are no better. Get a custom chamber with 250k freebore and now you have an argument, but it's still no better ballisticly.
indeed, if it ain’t running a 40 degree shoulder and packing 120 grains of powder then I don’t want it! ;)
This isn't entirely true, custom chambers for cases cut with long freebores to accommodate bullets with long bearing surface can make use of this bullet, but unless you have the capacity to drive the bigger higher bc bullets to a high enough velocity, lighter bullets of less bc take up less powder space allowing their velocity to overcome the BC of the heavier round. Now if we're talking 1000+ yards eventually the BC takes over. This is a HUNTING forum, not target. All shooting I am referring to, is ethical hunting ranges, say, 1k on in.
 

gerrybaker1960

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My custom 1000 yard 338 RUM cost no more than many off the shelf rifles.

Shoots 1/2 moa to China.

Quit whining and find a smith who can use mostly off the shelf components with a custom barrel.
 

Philward

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Oct 17, 2015
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Have you shot a 195 in a saami rem mag? The ballistics vs a 180 Berger going 150fps faster are no better. Get a custom chamber with 250k freebore and now you have an argument, but it's still no better ballisticly.
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my comment, but I won't shoot 175's in any of my 7RM rifles because I can use a 30-06 and do the same job.(for hunting)

This isn't entirely true, custom chambers for cases cut with long freebores to accommodate bullets with long bearing surface can make use of this bullet, but unless you have the capacity to drive the bigger higher bc bullets to a high enough velocity, lighter bullets of less bc take up less powder space allowing their velocity to overcome the BC of the heavier round. Now if we're talking 1000+ yards eventually the BC takes over. This is a HUNTING forum, not target. All shooting I am referring to, is ethical hunting ranges, say, 1k on in.
I'm not sure he was being completely serious with that comment, but maybe he was. I get the OP's point since I have a R700LR in 7RM with a 1:9.5 twist and it's throated pretty long so that's a mistake on Rem's part. But I don't hunt with that boat anchor of a rifle anyway. OK bench gun.
 

300whisper

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I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my comment, but I won't shoot 175's in any of my 7RM rifles because I can use a 30-06 and do the same job.(for hunting)


I'm not sure he was being completely serious with that comment, but maybe he was. I get the OP's point since I have a R700LR in 7RM with a 1:9.5 twist and it's throated pretty long so that's a mistake on Rem's part. But I don't hunt with that boat anchor of a rifle anyway. OK bench gun.

You’re right, I was joking. I’m a big fan of the .308 win family of cartridges. Biggest rifle cartridge I shoot is a .30-06. I’ll get into magnums one day. Just need some more money.
 

greatwhitehntr

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Sounds like a rant and it’s not making sense to me :rolleyes:
So you like getting ripped off on factory guns that are the same as 10 years ago only called something different at 2X the price? I am happy to be proven wrong as the case with T/C compass post great price and does what is was intended to do. It was just pointed out a 700 long range hunter my @$$ in 7 mag with a 1:9.5 twist really with a hefty price tag, it was also pointed out in a few post that the manufacturers sell to the masses so they like making fun of stupid people or the new uneducated, here you go dummy this is a 700 for long range hunting it is in the name, never mind I can buy a stock for my old 700 in 7mag and add a $300 dollar stock and adjust my old better 700 trigger and it probably better steel and in general gun. So at the end of the day yes it is a rant and I answered my own ???'s very early on in this thread, With don't by there crap.
 

Jud96

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So you like getting ripped off on factory guns that are the same as 10 years ago only called something different at 2X the price? I am happy to be proven wrong as the case with T/C compass post great price and does what is was intended to do. It was just pointed out a 700 long range hunter my @$$ in 7 mag with a 1:9.5 twist really with a hefty price tag, it was also pointed out in a few post that the manufacturers sell to the masses so they like making fun of stupid people or the new uneducated, here you go dummy this is a 700 for long range hunting it is in the name, never mind I can buy a stock for my old 700 in 7mag and add a $300 dollar stock and adjust my old better 700 trigger and it probably better steel and in general gun. So at the end of the day yes it is a rant and I answered my own ???'s very early on in this thread, With don't by there crap.
Again, let me explain to you. First off I don’t buy factory rifles. Factory rifles are designed for factory ammunition and factory ammunition must meet SAAMI specs. SAAMI specs are the guidelines manufacturers must follow. Remington can put a 1-8 twist in their 7mm Rem Mag, but their ammo has to meet SAAMI specs. You can’t stuff a high BC bullet in a 7mm Rem Mag case and make it meet SAAMI specs and have the performance you want. So what do you do? You build a custom rifle, you reload your own ammo and work with the factory twist, or you choose a modern cartridge that is designed from the start to shoot heavy, high BC bullets. This rings a bell and makes me point you towards the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, and 300 PRC. All the factory rifles and ammo are designed for long range shooting for these cartridges. You are also able to still buy traditional hunting ammunition for the guys who shoot 100 yards when hunting. There’s zero reason for the manufacturers to step out of SAAMI guidelines to build a rifle that they can’t make ammunition for. If they sold 7mm Rem Mag ammo it has to fit, feed, function, and be safe in 100% of the rifles available in that cartridge. Grandpa can’t use a special factory load with a heavy, high BC bullet in his 1962 produced rifle in 7mmRM because his rifle wasn’t designed for that. The manufacturers have to make their products fit everyone. It’s not all about stealing your money and hurting your feelings. My friend @Creedmoor shooter uses his factory Remington 700 Long Range to regularly shoot beyond 1000 yards. Yes it’s factory, yes he reloads for it, and yes he shoots long range with it. I see what you’re saying, but what you think they should do is impossible like I have explained twice now.
 

436

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Why can't the major manufacturers get it right? Better B.C. bullets in all calibers and fast twist barrels and better length barrels. I mean come on. 20" creedmoor barrel should be threaded for a CAN. What do you think they are gonna put on it. Stop calling it a western long-range hunter or a long-range hunter when you build a 300 win mag with a 24-in or even worse 22-in barrel go ahead and put on a 26-in minimum threaded with a one and nine, one and eight twist. When are they going to get it? What are your guy's thoughts? Am I asking for too much? I mean the prices keep going up but I can't buy what I want without having it custom built which is what I have to do.

Actually, I think many years ago ('70's into the '80s) they did try that but they didn't have the cartridges, caliber, and bullets they do now... and they may have felt perhaps it was a failure. But! I can't see a reason not to try it again. Cheers
 

Creedmoor shooter

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What @Jud96 says in 100% correct. Im not sure the OP is quite understanding what the manufacturers of guns and ammo have to deal with. They are bound to whatever sammi spec is. This is why new cartridges are born like the 6.5 creed,prc, 300 prc, etc with all the things us long range shooters desire. Also, we long range guys that actually care about high bc long bullets and properly set up rifles only make up a very small percentage of the shooting world. Id bet 95% of the shooters out there really don't care about that stuff. For them to cater to the minority of the shooting/hunting world just isn't practical nor cost effective. This is why we have custom rifle builders.
 

greatwhitehntr

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Again, let me explain to you. First off I don’t buy factory rifles. Factory rifles are designed for factory ammunition and factory ammunition must meet SAAMI specs. SAAMI specs are the guidelines manufacturers must follow. Remington can put a 1-8 twist in their 7mm Rem Mag, but their ammo has to meet SAAMI specs. You can’t stuff a high BC bullet in a 7mm Rem Mag case and make it meet SAAMI specs and have the performance you want. So what do you do? You build a custom rifle, you reload your own ammo and work with the factory twist, or you choose a modern cartridge that is designed from the start to shoot heavy, high BC bullets. This rings a bell and makes me point you towards the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, and 300 PRC. All the factory rifles and ammo are designed for long range shooting for these cartridges. You are also able to still buy traditional hunting ammunition for the guys who shoot 100 yards when hunting. There’s zero reason for the manufacturers to step out of SAAMI guidelines to build a rifle that they can’t make ammunition for. If they sold 7mm Rem Mag ammo it has to fit, feed, function, and be safe in 100% of the rifles available in that cartridge. Grandpa can’t use a special factory load with a heavy, high BC bullet in his 1962 produced rifle in 7mmRM because his rifle wasn’t designed for that. The manufacturers have to make their products fit everyone. It’s not all about stealing your money and hurting your feelings. My friend @Creedmoor shooter uses his factory Remington 700 Long Range to regularly shoot beyond 1000 yards. Yes it’s factory, yes he reloads for it, and yes he shoots long range with it. I see what you’re saying, but what you think they should do is impossible like I have explained twice now.
I won't lie buddy sometimes I'm slow to catch on. Hard-headed would be an understatement.
 

greatwhitehntr

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Feb 1, 2013
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Northern NEVADA
What @Jud96 says in 100% correct. Im not sure the OP is quite understanding what the manufacturers of guns and ammo have to deal with. They are bound to whatever sammi spec is. This is why new cartridges are born like the 6.5 creed,prc, 300 prc, etc with all the things us long range shooters desire. Also, we long range guys that actually care about high bc long bullets and properly set up rifles only make up a very small percentage of the shooting world. Id bet 95% of the shooters out there really don't care about that stuff. For them to cater to the minority of the shooting/hunting world just isn't practical nor cost effective. This is why we have custom rifle builders.
No I did not think that the manufacturers were stuck to such extreme standards that it screws everybody maybe we can do away with Sammi??? Ha ha. Then we could have some real progress.
Again thank you all for your comments.
 

nvschütze

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Aug 5, 2019
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Nevada
Why not buy the items that constitute a rifle and have a gunsmith of high reputation assemble it? I did that with a target rifle I built. The first iteration used a Krieger barrel with a SAAMI chamber in 300WSM; it never shot better than half-minute. The second iteration used a Hart barrel in my .300-caliber wildcat chambering; its best group was a 0.135 MOA. I'm now fooling-around with a Zermatt Arms TL3 short-action in a lefty-bolt/righty-port configuration that will use the 6.5-284 Norma chambering. Barrel will be an X-Caliber to fit the Savage small-shank dimensions. I've decided to spend about $250 for the trigger; have not yet decided upon which outfit will supply it. The stock will be one of those MagPro 700 Series thangs that can be set-up as a righty or a lefty. The scope will be the killer, though. I want a Nightforce; I'm mentally prepared to spend over $2500 for an 8-32X model.

What I can't buy is the time to take it out to the desert and shoot it. I drive for FedEx Ground. I've been working six days a week for months on end. I see no end to the grind...
 

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