What to use, whidden vs hornady vs redding vs forster vs "?" dies

[Lonewolf74]

For sami or factory chambers my vote is for Forster however last I checked they weren't doing custom dies.

Not meaning to hijack hear but this brought up a question I've been thinking about. How do you go about making a dummy round to base your chamber and dies off of?

For example I'm in the beginning stage of having a 338 norma mag built so I'm waiting to get my hands on some Lapua brass but what can I use to seat some bullets with not yet having dies and I want to go custom so how can I make some rounds to fire form? I understand I can just get a Lee collett neck sizer but what do I seat with?

 

[LeddSlinger]

For sami or factory chambers my vote is for Forster however last I checked they weren't doing custom dies.

Not meaning to hijack hear but this brought up a question I've been thinking about. How do you go about making a dummy round to base your chamber and dies off of?

For example I'm in the beginning stage of having a 338 norma mag built so I'm waiting to get my hands on some Lapua brass but what can I use to seat some bullets with not yet having dies and I want to go custom so how can I make some rounds to fire form? I understand I can just get a Lee collett neck sizer but what do I seat with?

If you are just doing a standard 338 Norma Mag, Whidden keeps sizing and seater dies in stock for that round.

I actually have a Whidden 338 Norma Mag FL bushing die I will sell you for a good price. Barely used, basically brand new. Then just buy a seater die from Whidden, seat a few bullets and send them off to have a reamer built. Shoot me a PM if you are interested in buying the Whidden FL sizer.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Just curious about what you use or do to maintain neck tension consistency. Do you always have to use the same brand/name brass? Do you use a tool like the Sinclair neck expander tool? I did see the video in this posting.

I turn the necks. There is no need to size from the inside.

 

[Alibiiv]

For sami or factory chambers my vote is for Forster however last I checked they weren't doing custom dies.

Not meaning to hijack hear but this brought up a question I've been thinking about. How do you go about making a dummy round to base your chamber and dies off of?

For example I'm in the beginning stage of having a 338 norma mag built so I'm waiting to get my hands on some Lapua brass but what can I use to seat some bullets with not yet having dies and I want to go custom so how can I make some rounds to fire form? I understand I can just get a Lee collett neck sizer but what do I seat with?

You're a little ahead of me with the process, however will take a shot at it. The .270 Ackley Improved is what I am having built. The parent case (.270 Winchester) is the same length as the .270AI case. I have some .270 Winchester ammunition that I intend to pull the bullets off of. I intend to anneal the brass, then reload this brass (with the pulled bullets) with a mild load to fire-form the annealed brass. I am pretty sure that with this Traditional/Wildcat chambering I ought to be able to just shoot them in the new chamber. There's another way that I've read about with a light load of "Bullseye" powder and cream of wheat, but..............I do not know the exact process. I'm sure that if you search the forums on here you'll be able to find out how it is done. I've also thought of opening up the .270 brass with a 30 caliber expander, resize the brass back down with the .270 Winchester resizing die that has been backed out to create a false shoulder to the dimensions of the .270 AI chamber; where the neck meets the shoulder. The last process that I have read about is to load the parent case with a mild load, however back the seating die out so that the bullet engages the rifling so that it holds the base of the case against the bolt face. I've fireformed .308 Winchesters to .358 Winchesters by simply chambering the round and firing it. I've lost some casings due to splitting, however I was hard up for brass and that is what I did. Loading for a wildcat is totally new territory for me, thus my opening sentence on this post. Before I try any of the methods that I have written about I intend to research it a bit further.

I had a .358 Norma mag many many years ago; dinosaurs had just been put on the protected species list. I used to fireform the brass out of 7mm Remington brass (2.500 case length). I found dimensions for the .338 Norma Magnum to be 2.492, 7mm RemMag ought to work for you. I can only suggest that you search these forums to get other's opinions with your question. Good luck with your build.

 

[LeddSlinger]

Do you understand that factory brass is already annealed? So your efforts wont be doing much. You'd be better off just firing the rounds so then you have fireformed cases. Anneal AFTER they are formed. Makes no sense to pull apart then put them back together to fire. Sounds like you are a little confused from too much reading...

Dont need a "false shoulder" when just changing the shoulder angle on a case. Does nothing for you because the neck shoulder junction does not move. Couldnt do it even if you wanted to anyhow. You only use the false shoulder method if the shoulder is being blown forward and changing the neck shoulder junction line.

Just fire the factory ammo in the rifle and out will come formed cases. You can use this time to properly break in the barrel while your at it

 

[Lonewolf74]

Alibiiv I dont want to confuse you at all. I'm not intending to do an Ackley chamber though I am contemplating it some. What I meant by fire forming is simply firing the brass to conform perfectly to my chamber wheater it's improved, sami tight neck or whatever. Even if you have a minimal sami chamber and die there could still be excess tolerance somewhere thus wanting a costum die specific to my chamber. I feel the best method of hand loading is to full length size with minimal sizing of the fired brass. My question was more a less is there any way to do this without first getting some dies to neck size and seat bullets while in the process of fire forming the brass to the chamber. Again this applies regardless of sami, factory or improved chamber.

 

[Alibiiv]

Do you understand that factory brass is already annealed? So your efforts wont be doing much. You'd be better off just firing the rounds so then you have fireformed cases. Anneal AFTER they are formed. Makes no sense to pull apart then put them back together to fire. Sounds like you are a little confused from too much reading...

Dont need a "false shoulder" when just changing the shoulder angle on a case. Does nothing for you because the neck shoulder junction does not move. Couldnt do it even if you wanted to anyhow. You only use the false shoulder method if the shoulder is being blown forward and changing the neck shoulder junction line.

Just fire the factory ammo in the rifle and out will come formed cases. You can use this time to properly break in the barrel while your at it

I will try shooting the reloaded ammunition that I already have. This was my thoughts on getting some cases that have been fired in the new chamber. I thought that I could simply shoot the stuff I have. When I wrote the last posting, I was attempting to answer the question about the .338 Norma mag fireforming. I've fireformed lots of brass up from a smaller caliber like the 30-06 brass to 35 Whelen, .308 brass to .358 Winchester, however have never fireformed a case to change the shoulder angle and blow out the shoulder. I believe that this can be done, however this is a new area of reloading that I have never done before. Lots of questions for me. Thank you for your posting.

 

[blaser270mag]

Please Help me with this:
I am looking forward to buy more dies for new guns.
Currently using forster dies

My question: Is there any advantage to get wilson micrometer seating dies with a K&M arbor press vs forster UM seating dies ??

Thanks

 

[Lonewolf74]

Please Help me with this:
I am looking forward to buy more dies for new guns.
Currently using forster dies

My question: Is there any advantage to get wilson micrometer seating dies with a K&M arbor press vs forster UM seating dies ??

Thanks

I cant remember who posted it up some years back but I'm pretty sure it was on this forum. Anyway it was a test testing out all the available styles of seating die and to most surprise the floating sleeve style (Forster and Redding) where most consistent with least run out, better then the arbor press set up.

In my opinion the only way you could get any better than your Forster dies is to send your Forster dies in to get the necks honed for your exact set up.

From there and in theory the very best you can do would be to send in a few pieces of 3X fired brass that where only neck sized inbetween (not sized at all after the 3rd firing) to a custom die manufacturer such as Whidden and get a custom FL, NON BUSHING sizing die and seating die to match. That's as good as it's possibly going to get, but of course it's around 3X more expensive to go this route then the Forster dies and you may or may not see a difference on target or in brass life.

 

[Sflutes]

I can say that on the whole my 6.5Creedmoor Forster Micrometer Bench Rest seater consistently seats a Hornady 130gr ELDM with far less runout (1-2/1000 vs 5-6/1000) than my 6.5x55 Redding Competition Seater seats a 142gr Sierra Match King on the same Forster Coax press. I have other Redding sizing dies (non-competition) where the decapping pin scribes a circle if you rotate it in your hand. The pin was not bent so the decapping rod appears to have been bent from the factory. And I always replace the Redding locking rings with the cross screw variety (Hornady usually) to save my die's threads.

 

[LeddSlinger]

It's hard to judge runout on dies with numbers from different rifles and chamberings. Most runout is caused by chambers that aren't cut perfectly straight and concentric to the bore and squared to the bolt face. FL dies can correct it to an extent, but brass bodies and necks will always spring back a little bit. I always check fired unsized cases on a new barrel for runout. Let's me know if the chamber is true. Then size brass and check the case again. Finally seat a bullet and check bullet bearing surface runout in relation to the case.

You can also bore out the seater stem and bed it to the bullet you will be using. But that's a whole nother ball of wax I can explain if someone is interested.

One thing I would do to help the runout on Redding dies is stop using a Hornady product on them (ie; lock rings). I wouldnt touch any Hornady machining with a 10 ft pole! Forster lock rings have cross bolts as well and I'm sure their tolerances are much better.

 

[blaser270mag]

Thanks for the advice
I was willing to buy the arbor press and wilson dies in order to improve my rounds made with my forester press and dies...

 

[blaser270mag]

Is there any book or reading to know more about this ??

 

[Alibiiv]

It's hard to judge runout on dies with numbers from different rifles and chamberings. Most runout is caused by chambers that aren't cut perfectly straight and concentric to the bore and squared to the bolt face. FL dies can correct it to an extent, but brass bodies and necks will always spring back a little bit. I always check fired unsized cases on a new barrel for runout. Let's me know if the chamber is true. Then size brass and check the case again. Finally seat a bullet and check bullet bearing surface runout in relation to the case.

You can also bore out the seater stem and bed it to the bullet you will be using. But that's a whole nother ball of wax I can explain if someone is interested.

One thing I would do to help the runout on Redding dies is stop using a Hornady product on them (ie; lock rings). I wouldnt touch any Hornady machining with a 10 ft pole! Forster lock rings have cross bolts as well and I'm sure their tolerances are much better.

"I always check fired unsized cases on a new barrel for runout." How do you do this, with a device like a Sinclair concentricity tool on a piece of brass that was fired in your rifle chamber? I hope that some of these questions do not seem like they are stupid, it's just that a whole lot of this information is new territory for some of us. Thanks