What dies are better for bolt action rifles

[traprwill]

as title says what dies should I use the FL or neck or ??? and does it matter? would like to hear what you all have to say
thanks for any and all help

Will

 

[Trickymissfit]

as title says what dies should I use the FL or neck or ??? and does it matter? would like to hear what you all have to say
thanks for any and all help

Will

with the majority of factory chambers, it's almost a waste of time to neck size. Also if the rifle is a hunting rifle your better off full length sizing.
gary

 

[Sully2]

If you are shooting the same casings in the same rifle 100% of the time...you easily get by with neck sizing only with the occasional full length sizeing to control stretch and bump the shoulder back.

If you are attempting to use the same cartridges in 2 or more rifles....nope! You have to full length size every time.

 

[BountyHunter]

If you are shooting the same casings in the same rifle 100% of the time...you easily get by with neck sizing only with the occasional full length sizeing to control stretch and bump the shoulder back.

If you are attempting to use the same cartridges in 2 or more rifles....nope! You have to full length size every time.

You can "get by" with a lot of things. However, simple facts that are often ignored in this debate is that brass keeps growing dimensionally until the bolt locks. There is a variance case to case in the growth from case to case even. By waiting until it is hard to chamber, you allow the work hardening plus 100%reliability on chambering and bolt lock up is out the window. NS only does nothing for that uniformity variance and reliability. Simple measurements with a qualityblade mike will easily confirm the growth and variance issue.

So if you want your brass to be uniform piece to piece, each and every time, then FL size using a honed die to match your chamber and when sizing you move the brass the least and have less work hardening as compared to the NS.

Jim Carstenson (JLC Precision) can make a custom honed FL bushing die from a Redding body die that fits perfectly with your chamber, eliminates the neck expander ball (another big complaint of the NS only crowd) and cost is $28 for the body die, $80 for Jim and two week turn around. This gives you minimal sizing, perfect chamber fit, all uniform brass and 100 % reliabiliy. NS only cannot do that.

BH

 

[boomtube]

All factory firearms are reamed with SAMMI standard chamber reamers. All factory dies are reamed with SAAMI standard die reamers. There is no automatic need for a special die to load for bolts, autos, slides, single shots or levers. Some loaders use a neck die but all loaders need a FL die; that's not an "either" thing, but both.

 

[woods]

Lee Collet Neck Sizer
Redding Body Die
Redding (or Forster) Competition Seater

Nuff said!

 

[375fan]

Woods,

The Redding or Forster seating dies you mentioned, do they seat by pushing on the tip of the bullet or push on the ogive?

Thanks

 

[woods]

Woods,

The Redding or Forster seating dies you mentioned, do they seat by pushing on the tip of the bullet or push on the ogive?

Thanks

IME all seating dies push on the ogive by design but some may have a problem with a particularly pointed bullet. In that case it wouldn't matter who the manufacturer was you would have to take the seating stem out and make some adjustments.

What is good about the Redding or Forster seating dies is that they encapsulate the case body with a floating sleeve and align the bullet and case neck. Personally I prefer the RCBS Competition or Gold Match seaters because they have a window in the side for loading the bullet and a micrometer top so they make life much easier. In my tests they do as well as the Redding Comp seaters but many here do not agree so I left them out to avoid controversy

 

[Armed in Utah]

I've been reloading ammo for nearly 40 yrs....

The dies I use now are either Redding...Forster or Lee.....C/S is second to none

especially from Redding or Forster..along with quality...but its hard to beat the Lee

collet neck die....my varmint rifles are neck die only...either the collet or a bushing style die..

Game rifles are normally FL sized to ensure proper feeding & function......

 

[Trickymissfit]

You can "get by" with a lot of things. However, simple facts that are often ignored in this debate is that brass keeps growing dimensionally until the bolt locks. There is a variance case to case in the growth from case to case even. By waiting until it is hard to chamber, you allow the work hardening plus 100%reliability on chambering and bolt lock up is out the window. NS only does nothing for that uniformity variance and reliability. Simple measurements with a qualityblade mike will easily confirm the growth and variance issue.

So if you want your brass to be uniform piece to piece, each and every time, then FL size using a honed die to match your chamber and when sizing you move the brass the least and have less work hardening as compared to the NS.

Jim Carstenson (JLC Precision) can make a custom honed FL bushing die from a Redding body die that fits perfectly with your chamber, eliminates the neck expander ball (another big complaint of the NS only crowd) and cost is $28 for the body die, $80 for Jim and two week turn around. This gives you minimal sizing, perfect chamber fit, all uniform brass and 100 % reliabiliy. NS only cannot do that.

BH

somewhere in my log books I keep a diagram for each chamber I shoot (it's not upto date right now before anyone asks). I know exactly how long the chamber neck is and the actual throat data for each bullet I planed to shoot in that chamber. I also have the gauge line deminsions for each of those chambers to properly set the headspace up when sizing a case.

I've ran tests in the past to see just how much better a factory chambered rifle shot with neck sized rounds verses full length resized rounds, and the difference is nill if any at all in group size. If you got a good chamber and a good die; it should not matter much at all. BUT; at the range I usually neck size with a Wilson die because it's easy and fast.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

All factory firearms are reamed with SAMMI standard chamber reamers. All factory dies are reamed with SAAMI standard die reamers. There is no automatic need for a special die to load for bolts, autos, slides, single shots or levers. Some loaders use a neck die but all loaders need a FL die; that's not an "either" thing, but both.

I beg to differ ever so slightly sir! I prefer a small base die in an AR15 (but don't always use one), and my lever guns work better in some cases with one (once again not everytime). In a bolt gun I agree with you.
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Woods,

The Redding or Forster seating dies you mentioned, do they seat by pushing on the tip of the bullet or push on the ogive?

Thanks

a Forster touches the ogive only, and sometimes you have to order in another head for the seating stems (VLD's mainly). I imagine Redding works the sameway as they basicly copied the Forster design
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

IME all seating dies push on the ogive by design but some may have a problem with a particularly pointed bullet. In that case it wouldn't matter who the manufacturer was you would have to take the seating stem out and make some adjustments.

What is good about the Redding or Forster seating dies is that they encapsulate the case body with a floating sleeve and align the bullet and case neck. Personally I prefer the RCBS Competition or Gold Match seaters because they have a window in the side for loading the bullet and a micrometer top so they make life much easier. In my tests they do as well as the Redding Comp seaters but many here do not agree so I left them out to avoid controversy

I've never used the RCBS seater you speak of, but have seen a couple of them. I pretty much use nothing but Forster seaters when working with a standard press. I have a hand full of Redding seaters as well, but still like the Forster better, as it seems to have less backlash in the adjustments (may be just me). Neither one are as consistent as a tight Wilson seater if that matters much.
gary

 

[traprwill]

what dose the small base dies do or not do that make them good for an AR ? I will be picking up my new custom AR hopefully before Christmas , SO what type dies are best for them the small base ones? and as far as my other dies they are all RCBS fl dies but was thinking of trying the bushing type dies? what is the big differences between them?

thanks again
Will