What causes horizontal spread

[Welderboy11972]

Hello Guys,
I'd like to start off with a big THANK YOU to everyone on here that has posted anything about the 300rum. You all have enabled me to learn more then I ever thought possible.

Ok, I have a question. What will cause horizontal spread. I know power charge, along with other small things, cause vertical spread but I don't think I have read anything about horizontal.
a little info on the gun and loads.
Remington 700 long range 300rum
Nosler 200gr Accubond
Retumbo powder 94.7gr
Setting .030 off lands
Fed 215 primer
cases trimmed to 2.835
Everything is weight sorted to with in 1 gr

I have my vertical spread down to avarge of .350 but my horizontal verys from .750 to 1.00 with 5 shot groups.

If someone has any suggestions, please enlighten me as to what I'm doing.

 

[Welderboy11972]

Sorry, I forgot to add I'm shooting at 200 yards. Could this be my trigger pull form?

 

[rcoody]

Sorry, I forgot to add I'm shooting at 200 yards. Could this be my trigger pull form?

you or the wind

most likely you are changing something about the way you are holding the the gun.

1" horizontal spread at 200 yrds? So you are shoot 1" groups at 200 yrds? That sounds good to me.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Horizontal spread can be difficult to diagnose in a no wind situation, but, how you hold the rifle can influence this. Even though a rifle stock appears very stiff, they do move with pressure applied to them.
I only touch the rifle with my shooting hand, this reduces barrel harmonic changes. Some rifles will pull left or right due to how much pressure you're using to pull the rifle into your shoulder. Some will change POI just from the stock being on the bag in a different spot. My F-Class stock will change POI if the stock isn't against the stop.
When testing for groups, I use a shooting pad, and let the rifle recoil freely with little pressure from my shooting hand.
Others may think differently, but I've found composite stocks to resonate and I think this influences POI shifts to a small extent. Even with alloy bedding blocks, a skim bed never hurts and can lessen resonating influences to the barrel. Metal 'sings' and resonates, and it is this oscillation that changes POI, anything you can do to lessen this and keep it consistent, such as tuning seating depth, then cheek weld and shooting technique will give better precision, because that's what we're trying to achieve.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Rich Coyle]

Interesting.

 

[Welderboy11972]

Thanks for the response guys. Yes, I was talking about in a no wind situation. I shoot with bipods and a shooter bag. Without putting any pressure on the butt of the gun, I adjust the bag on the bottom of the stock to get the reticle on target, softly grip the gun with my thumb just laying across the top, lean into the butt trying to not move the gun off target, pull the gun in tight to my sholder with my 3 other fingers, and gently pull the trigger. My left hand squeezes the bag to adjust any small vertical and any horizontal movement.

I was hoping for a easier fix. Bad shooting habits are the hardest thing to change.

 

[FearNoWind]

A few things that I find are often overlooked.
If your rest isn't set up correctly it can influence horizontal spread.
Make sure the rest:
is nearer to the end of the stock than it is to the stock's balance point
has the stock set solidly and firmly in the base of the rest and that the stock is gripped tightly by the sides of the rest pad (assuming you have a rest with a pad that you can snug up horizontally)
Make sure:
you're hold in the stock with the trigger hand isn't "squeezing" the grip;
the rear bag is adjusted to allow the stock to slide back freely to the rear without binding;
the cheek weld isn't so firm that it affects the movement of the butt during recoil;
the pressure of the butt on the shoulder is consistent, shot to shot (this will have a greater affect on vertical shot placement can can affect horizontal);
the seating depth has been refined for the greatest accuracy.
When everything else is perfect, seating depth can cause horizontal stringing of shots on target.

 

[scottishkat]

A few things that I find are often overlooked.
If your rest isn't set up correctly it can influence horizontal spread.
Make sure the rest:
is nearer to the end of the stock than it is to the stock's balance point
has the stock set solidly and firmly in the base of the rest and that the stock is gripped tightly by the sides of the rest pad (assuming you have a rest with a pad that you can snug up horizontally)
Make sure:
you're hold in the stock with the trigger hand isn't "squeezing" the grip;
the rear bag is adjusted to allow the stock to slide back freely to the rear without binding;
the cheek weld isn't so firm that it affects the movement of the butt during recoil;
the pressure of the butt on the shoulder is consistent, shot to shot (this will have a greater affect on vertical shot placement can can affect horizontal);
the seating depth has been refined for the greatest accuracy.
When everything else is perfect, seating depth can cause horizontal stringing of shots on target.

All this and Check the weight you put on the bipod as well some like to load the bipod and you may be doing so involuntarily when adjusting the rear bag and shoulder .750 TO 1.00 at 200 for 5 shots is nothing to complain to loud about.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

 

[Welderboy11972]

Thanks guys
Got off work this evening and loaded up a few rounds.
5- 0.025
5- 0.027
5- 0.030
5- 0.033
5- 0.035

The bag I use is a Protektor #13B...it has the rabbit ears
With the short bipods I have, the stock sits in the bag with the sling mount stud up against the back of the bag where the ears are sewed on.

Scottishkat,
By loading the bipods, I'm guessing you are talking about putting forward pressure on the rifle. If so, that might be some of my issue. I thought that that was proper form. I'll back off alittle and see what that does.

 

[scottishkat]

Scottishkat,
By loading the bipods, I'm guessing you are talking about putting forward pressure on the rifle. If so, that might be some of my issue. I thought that that was proper form. I'll back off alittle and see what that does.[/QUOTE]

It is just make sure its consistent. Be sure and post results.

Good luck

Bob

 

[Barrelnut]

What bipod are you using? With some you can adjust the tension that allows the rifle to move left and right on the bipod. Try tightening it up a bit if possible.

Does the rifle always jump left off target when you shoot?

 

[cowboy]

Welderboy: here are a couple of things I would try - and shooting 1" at 200 you obviously know what you are doing. You may have tried some of this but here are a few things to think about.

First of all I would pick out a rock or target at the farthest distance you have available, dry fire and watch for any movement in your crosshairs when the hammer drops. This is the best exercise for me to diagnose operator error.

Not knowing what bipod, type of bipod feet or type of surface you are setting your bipod on I have found that the normal rubber feet just don't cut it. I actually dig my bipod spikes into the surface until I feel comfortable both legs are on solid ground.

I would suggest you take off your rear sling swivel stud and see if that helps with smoother recoil movement on your rear bag. That stud can act like a jumping pivot point on your rear bag. I go so far as to coat my rear bag with baby powder to allow my stock to recoil with as little resistance as possible.

Good luck ad keep with it.

 

[Welderboy11972]

Barrelnut,
I have the UTG tactical bipods. Yea they are just the little ol cheap ones. Had a set of Harris bipods, with the cant and swivel. I soon found out that the recoil of a 300rum plays havick on any unnecessary moveable parts.

Haven't noticed the muzzle jumping left or right. I will pay attention to that next time. Thanks
When doing a ladder test, the 94, 94.5, 95 had the same vertical (holes touching) just left of target about 1"
93gr was same vertical as 94-95 but to the right of target about 2"
93.5 was way high about 2"
When I loaded 94.5, 94.7, 95 ( 5 of each)...94.7 gave me the best vertical group
All groups are now to the right of target
Shot 3-5 shot groups with the 94.7
All 3 groups was great vertical ( .347-.352)
The horizonal groups are in little mini 2-3 shot groups .750- 1.00 apart
But they are all to the right of target, none to the left
So it's possible the gun jumps to the right for some reason.

Cowboy,
I've done the dry fire trick your talking about. That's how I found that this monster had eaten ( not 1 but 2) scopes. I now have a sightron siii 8-32 on it and so far it's done really well. I went through a lot of bullets, powders, and primers trying to get this gun to shot when it was the scopes the whole time.
I'm going to remove the stud and give it a try. Thanks guys
I'm sorry for being a pain in the rump, I was just at the end of my rope with this issue.

 

[LoneTraveler]

If you have a free floated barrel on this rifle get into shooting position ready to fire have someone run a card or paper down around the barrel and see if it is still free floating. Check the scope ring screws and the scope itself. Is there any parallax in the scope and will the scope adjust perfect for different distances. Check if the bipod is giving. If the back sling attachment is rubbing on the back bag it has most of the butt stock weight on it and acts as a pivot point. Remove it and see if that will help. Now To Operator Error. Check the parallax in the scope and make sure your cheek weld is exactly the same each shot. Does the gun kick hard enough to make you twich your shoulder at the shot?? Are you putting your finger to the center of the first pad on the finger each shot? or, Are you DRAGING WOOD with your trigger finger? An old instructors tool is (Be able to slide a pencil between the rifle stock and your finger in position to shoot.) If your finger is touching the stock it will cause horizontal shift ever so little. Once you get the gun problems solved, if any. Get a good instructor to watch you shoot or video you shooting and see if your are changing something now and then on a shot. Good luck and Happy shooting.