Weapon safety

[nksmfamjp]

My point is trigger safety is all about jar off. Can the sear be jarred off with a force not on the trigger. This is actually quite common. I have personally seen a factory trigger that was user adjustable that could be adjusted to jar off quite easily.

I also have a Jewell set to 1.5oz which does not jar off.

When my grandson is properly trained, I would rather he use my Jewell . My grandson will be properly trained.

If my concern is that somebody may accidentally pull the trigger in some sort of a field handling situation, I do agree that a heavier trigger can be a little better. We do differ slightly on what heavier is… I have a jewel set at about 1 pound that I would carry loaded in the field. I have a Tikka though that I would prefer to have set around 1.8 to 2 pounds because I'm not sure I trust it at its lightest setting of about 1.5 pounds. That said it doesn't jar off at 1.5 pounds. The resistance to being pulled properly and going off in an unintended situation is a difficult topic on one hand your finger should never be on the trigger before you shoot, and the gun should never be pointed at anything you're not willing to shoot… On the other hand, I do simply think that human performance is not good enough to ensure that triggers without safeties will not be pulled and that sometimes humans will fail, and they will be pointed at something they shouldn't be pointed at. Still, those are all the fault of the human, but they are also the fault of the humans expectation that they will meet their human performance requirement. I don't like to put too high of a human performance requirement on myself or on others.

That said my grandson is about 10 months old. He's a few years away from pulling triggers, but I know he will be good at it or the best that I can train him.

 

[lordofbarbeque]

To be honest this thread should just focus on Jeff Cooper's four rules of gun safety. In this incident you had a loaded rifle with individual not thinking about where gun barrel was pointed
Besides rifle being loaded in cabin with any kind of trigger, etc if the four rules had been adhered to, then loss of life would not have occurred.
JMO

 

[jseandsje]

My point is trigger safety is all about jar off. Can the sear be jarred off with a force not on the trigger. This is actually quite common. I have personally seen a factory trigger that was user adjustable that could be adjusted to jar off quite easily.

I also have a Jewell set to 1.5oz which does not jar off.

When my grandson is properly trained, I would rather he use my Jewell . My grandson will be properly trained.

If my concern is that somebody may accidentally pull the trigger in some sort of a field handling situation, I do agree that a heavier trigger can be a little better. We do differ slightly on what heavier is… I have a jewel set at about 1 pound that I would carry loaded in the field. I have a Tikka though that I would prefer to have set around 1.8 to 2 pounds because I'm not sure I trust it at its lightest setting of about 1.5 pounds. That said it doesn't jar off at 1.5 pounds. The resistance to being pulled properly and going off in an unintended situation is a difficult topic on one hand your finger should never be on the trigger before you shoot, and the gun should never be pointed at anything you're not willing to shoot… On the other hand, I do simply think that human performance is not good enough to ensure that triggers without safeties will not be pulled and that sometimes humans will fail, and they will be pointed at something they shouldn't be pointed at. Still, those are all the fault of the human, but they are also the fault of the humans expectation that they will meet their human performance requirement. I don't like to put too high of a human performance requirement on myself or on others.

That said my grandson is about 10 months old. He's a few years away from pulling triggers, but I know he will be good at it or the best that I can train him.

I will agree to disagree with you There is no place for a trigger modified beyond its design pull weight down to 1 or less lb in a big game hunting environment.

The 4 rules come from a common sense check. There are many many other rules that responsible hunters impose on themselves.

Again, as I stated in my original reply "Why in the world take a firearm for granted".

 

[nksmfamjp]

I will agree to disagree with you There is no place for a trigger modified beyond its design pull weight down to 1 or less lb in a big game hunting environment.

I'm glad you disagree. Thank you for your opinion. It is yours and it is right for you. Thanks for sharing.

Let me know about this common sense thing…..you should look into that some. In a place where human performance is required for safety and effectiveness, common sense is eliminated as much as possible. "Common sense" is a shortcut for not communicating the required actions and then holding another human accountable for that which was never explained. It is arguably most successfully used in parenting to build a bond around high unclear expectations. Used in a critical settings it is often the cause of death, dismemberment and damage.

Do you yell at dead electricians that it is common sense to disconnect power before wiring a panel, or is it broken down into details, taught and tested before they are allowed to work on their own?

 

[Ronin75]

What started as a simple question regarding one aspect of firearms safety, has turned into drama. Now I know why I'm always reluctant to post questions

 

[lordofbarbeque]

What started as a simple question regarding one aspect of firearms safety, has turned into drama. Now I know why I'm always reluctant to post questions

I agree with your post and glad you made it as a reminder to follow the rules of gun safety. As my friend told me, who knows situation and people involved, it is a tragic loss of life due to stupidity in handling firearm.
So it is a good reminder to never forget rules of gun safety.
It's like whenever a person hands me a firearm I always check to see if it's loaded.

 

[Ronin75]

Thank you my point exactly

 

[Muddyboots]

Two hunters are dead. Why? Someone didn't follow basic firearm safety. All the extraneous crap is irrelevant. Again what was the Root cause for THIS incident? We do not know WHY these bad decisions were made but we know the result.

Horrible impact upon multiple families FOREVER struggling to understand WHY as well.

 

[BRADMOTO]

I thought it was utterly ridiculous having to unload at clearing barrels before entering a base in Iraq. There would be reports of NDs now and again. My thought was, just leave the dam things loaded and on safe and don't monkey around with it all the time loading & unloading. The NDs only happened at the clearing barrels anyway.

 

[xsn10s]

I recently read an article regarding a hunting accident which resulted in a hunting partner getting shot in the leg. The injured hunter bleed to death before medical aid was on scene. Apparently his hunting partner was removing a rifle from its case when the gun discharged hitting his friends leg.
My question is this, while shooting an animal you have worked the bolt as part of the follow through sequence. However a second shot is not necessary. The weapon you are carrying has a hinged floor plate.
What is your unloading sequence.
1. Safety on , bolt to the rear ejecting the unfired cartridge, open the floor plate to empty the magazine.
Or
2. Safety on, open the floor plate to empty the magazine, then bolt to the rear to eject the unfired case.

Thanks for your input.

The victim in this incident was a friend of a friend. My buddy likely trained him. I don't know any of the circumstances on how he was injured and passed on other than what was reported. Two things seem to be a glaring problem.

1) The rifle was transported loaded. I'm not sure about Idaho but in Oregon (my state) you can only do that if you are a CCW holder.
2) The victim was shot while the rifle was taken out of it's case. Which imo means muzzle discipline wasn't maintained.
3) Calling the person who made this mistake an idiot or any other disparaging comment is counterproductive. Accidents are just that, accidents. And if we have poor practices or make bad decisions then it can happen at any time to any of us.

Prayers lifted to all those involved. Something that should have been a happy outing resulted into a life altering tragedy.

 

[lordofbarbeque]

My point is that you can like someone and they still can do stupid things.
If my friend told me correctly and he was friend of the deceased, then one can say a loaded hunting weapon inside the cabin at anytime especially at 5am is stupid, pure and simple.
Which to me means the rifle was left loaded overnight. It seems like people can take firearm safety for granted. This is one of those grave reminders to always treat firearm safety with upmost respect.
For instance, when I touch a firearm given to me, I always check to see if it's loaded. I don't even care if I saw the person check it beforehand!!