liltank
Well-Known Member
Just want to follow. It's a cool plan.
Wanted to show a Remington 700 drop-in bullpup chassis I've been developing
- Thread starter Tyler Kemp
- Start date
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mountainman56
Well-Known Member
Looking great. I'll be keeping an eye out. gun)
Thanks for working on a bullpup, I like them.
Obviously you are much more experienced in this area than I am, but I played with some designs and ergonomics for pull pups and silhouette pistol layouts, as these share some common ergonomic challenges. Just for fun, I will throw in some ideas for you to use / abuse / discard as appropriate:
1) Bolt Cycling
- Since the right hand will be firmly and pleasantly on the pistol grip, the natural tendency will be to cycle the bolt with the left hand.
- Consider the Savage Striker and other silhouette pistols vs the original XP-100.
- Pick one up and fire it from a standing position - see for yourself how quickly cycling left handed makes more sense.
- It won't take long before many right hand shooters desire a left hand action, rather than twisting the rifle over counter clockwise to cycle the bolt left handed.
- If nothing else, please consider to make the platform friendly for left hand bolt actions.
2) Pistol Grip - Adjustable Position
- What I found (for me) was that the ability to move the pistol grip forward / backward) was much more useful than adjusting the stock position forward / backward.
- Consider to mount the pistol grip on a rail rather than a fixed position.
- Yes I know this makes the trigger mechanism issue bigger, but it also lowers the mass since you don't need such a complicated adjustable stock.
3) Trigger Mechanism
- One of the more successful designs is the FN P90
- A big reason for their success is that they didn't design it based on a single rod passing through precision bushings (usually not stiff enough) but rather a wider "ladder" type design.
- There are many machines in the world that have failed trying to do motion with a single thin rod in bushings. It can be done, but it is expensive and subject to dirt infiltration.
- Consider to use an electric trigger. Yes, non traditional, but it is just what the doctor ordered for a design like this.
This is one of the times when the much maligned Remington etronix system would be really handy, but that might be a bridge too far. Just keep in mind that when it comes to reliability, modern artillery doesn't use a hammer smashing into a primer.
Just some ideas to ponder, but don't let me throw your design into a mess.
Obviously you are much more experienced in this area than I am, but I played with some designs and ergonomics for pull pups and silhouette pistol layouts, as these share some common ergonomic challenges. Just for fun, I will throw in some ideas for you to use / abuse / discard as appropriate:
1) Bolt Cycling
- Since the right hand will be firmly and pleasantly on the pistol grip, the natural tendency will be to cycle the bolt with the left hand.
- Consider the Savage Striker and other silhouette pistols vs the original XP-100.
- Pick one up and fire it from a standing position - see for yourself how quickly cycling left handed makes more sense.
- It won't take long before many right hand shooters desire a left hand action, rather than twisting the rifle over counter clockwise to cycle the bolt left handed.
- If nothing else, please consider to make the platform friendly for left hand bolt actions.
2) Pistol Grip - Adjustable Position
- What I found (for me) was that the ability to move the pistol grip forward / backward) was much more useful than adjusting the stock position forward / backward.
- Consider to mount the pistol grip on a rail rather than a fixed position.
- Yes I know this makes the trigger mechanism issue bigger, but it also lowers the mass since you don't need such a complicated adjustable stock.
3) Trigger Mechanism
- One of the more successful designs is the FN P90
- A big reason for their success is that they didn't design it based on a single rod passing through precision bushings (usually not stiff enough) but rather a wider "ladder" type design.
- There are many machines in the world that have failed trying to do motion with a single thin rod in bushings. It can be done, but it is expensive and subject to dirt infiltration.
- Consider to use an electric trigger. Yes, non traditional, but it is just what the doctor ordered for a design like this.
This is one of the times when the much maligned Remington etronix system would be really handy, but that might be a bridge too far. Just keep in mind that when it comes to reliability, modern artillery doesn't use a hammer smashing into a primer.
Just some ideas to ponder, but don't let me throw your design into a mess.
I looked back at your photos again, looks like you have really thought things through. Of course, I have a few more ideas / questions anyway, especially for use in prone position:
4) Pistol Grip as the tripod
- I could imagine wanting to use the pistol grip instead of adding on a tripod
- It would be handy if this were possible.
5) Magazine side load pressure
- Some setups start to feed poorly if there is pressure on the magazine. This happens more often in semi-auto pistols than rifles, but potentially can happen.
- When lying prone, there will be a tendency to have side / vertical loads on the magazine.
- Perhaps it is worth considering a method of protecting the magazine well area?
I would consider buying one of your setups as a pistol setup - looks really useful - good luck.
Harry
4) Pistol Grip as the tripod
- I could imagine wanting to use the pistol grip instead of adding on a tripod
- It would be handy if this were possible.
5) Magazine side load pressure
- Some setups start to feed poorly if there is pressure on the magazine. This happens more often in semi-auto pistols than rifles, but potentially can happen.
- When lying prone, there will be a tendency to have side / vertical loads on the magazine.
- Perhaps it is worth considering a method of protecting the magazine well area?
I would consider buying one of your setups as a pistol setup - looks really useful - good luck.
Harry
Tyler Kemp
Well-Known Member
Hi Harry, you have some good input, and I'll try and respond to your suggestions:
1) The chassis is ambidextrous, and will fit a left handed action. My concern with a right handed shooter, shooting a left handed action is the bolt will be right in your face, and the cheekpiece will be in the way as well.
There will be a bolt extension though, so the bolt handle in a conventional position is possible.
2) We just can't do a movable grip with the current trigger design. However, adding adjustability to the rear section didn't add much weight, it's fairly light for what it is.
3) This chassis doesn't use a single operating rod, as you're correct it wouldn't be stiff, and would be subject to binding. The trigger mechanism is shielded from dirt and grime. I'd say more...but this is the reason I think this chassis will be successful, and I don't want anyone to know the ins and outs of it yet.
4) There will be m-lok or keymod slots depending on what the user chooses for his/her forend. What they put on there is totally up to them
5) In terms of feeding...that may or may not be a concern, I don't think it will, but the only way to know for sure is to get out there with V2 and shoot a bunch. Which I plan on doing!
5.5) An electronic trigger would be nice, and that is something my partner and I have talked about. Once I get this first version out there I'm hoping sales give us some cash on hand to r&d more innovation with.
1) The chassis is ambidextrous, and will fit a left handed action. My concern with a right handed shooter, shooting a left handed action is the bolt will be right in your face, and the cheekpiece will be in the way as well.
There will be a bolt extension though, so the bolt handle in a conventional position is possible.
2) We just can't do a movable grip with the current trigger design. However, adding adjustability to the rear section didn't add much weight, it's fairly light for what it is.
3) This chassis doesn't use a single operating rod, as you're correct it wouldn't be stiff, and would be subject to binding. The trigger mechanism is shielded from dirt and grime. I'd say more...but this is the reason I think this chassis will be successful, and I don't want anyone to know the ins and outs of it yet.
4) There will be m-lok or keymod slots depending on what the user chooses for his/her forend. What they put on there is totally up to them
5) In terms of feeding...that may or may not be a concern, I don't think it will, but the only way to know for sure is to get out there with V2 and shoot a bunch. Which I plan on doing!
5.5) An electronic trigger would be nice, and that is something my partner and I have talked about. Once I get this first version out there I'm hoping sales give us some cash on hand to r&d more innovation with.
Tyler Kemp
Well-Known Member
Chassis V2 is less than two weeks from being complete. It may not look like much, but here is what I call the "main rail" which houses the trigger components. There have been tons of improvements made from V1. Was hoping to have it complete by Christmas, but a package containing necessary items for measurements was lost in the mail for several weeks.
tinkerer
Well-Known Member
I've ben following this for a while now.
Overall,
One area that bothers me. Look at the grip on a thumbhole stock for a little guidance as this design angles your arm and shoulder out a little, which may be necessary for a bullpup chassis due to minimal clearance for your hand.
Or maybe if you would show us a pic with a person in battery?
Secondary comment. I have played with an electric trigger assembly from a paint ball gun for my Savage Striker stocks, which are very similar to yours in configuration for a mid grip stock. No fancy high tech rods and bearings, just a few wires and a battery.
Just my 2 cents worth. Overall, good effort so far.
Larry
Tinkerer
Overall,
One area that bothers me. Look at the grip on a thumbhole stock for a little guidance as this design angles your arm and shoulder out a little, which may be necessary for a bullpup chassis due to minimal clearance for your hand.
Or maybe if you would show us a pic with a person in battery?
Secondary comment. I have played with an electric trigger assembly from a paint ball gun for my Savage Striker stocks, which are very similar to yours in configuration for a mid grip stock. No fancy high tech rods and bearings, just a few wires and a battery.
Just my 2 cents worth. Overall, good effort so far.
Larry
Tinkerer
7mmShooter
Well-Known Member
Tyler just posted a video on YouTube of a working prototype, its pretty sweet! Well done Ty!!!gun)
trebark
Well-Known Member
can you post a link?
7mmShooter
Well-Known Member
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ltI1bk2TIEU here you go guys...
Tyler Kemp
Well-Known Member
Here is V2 guys
I'm super excited where things are going! NOT pictured in this:
1) cheekpiece-it's really simple and I totally forgot about it while working on the much more complex stuff
2) bolt handle extension-a customer can send in their bolt for installation of a bolt handle that makes ergonomics essentially like a regular bolt action
3) keymod or MLOK forend slots. I plan on offering both options, and different length forends
4) flathead screws that are flush with the chassis, rather than the socket head cap screws on exposed surfaces
5) radiused corners, lightening cuts, just stuff to smooth out everything and make it look a bit more streamlined
As you may have saw in the video above, I can keep my cheek down and pull the bolt all the way out of the action. It's not as ergonomic as a normal bolt action, but it's not impossible as many thought it would be. With a bolt handle extension things will be real quick and easy.
