VXIII VS MK4 Leupold

[Quick Karl]

<font color="blue">In more than one of the gun shops I go to, all of the sales people will confirm that Leupold sales have gone way down recently, and Leupold repairs have gone way up in the last few years.

The company is top heavy, CEO's, VP's of this and that, and marketing slime deciding to rename a Vari-X III to "MARK IV" and change the ring color to black, all make way more salary then they are worth.

That is where the quality has gone.</font>

 

[bailey1474]

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In more than one of the gun shops I go to, all of the sales people will confirm that Leupold sales have gone way down recently, and Leupold repairs have gone way up in the last few years.


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That's very interesting. I'd bet that we sell more Leupold than most corner gun stores and I haven't noticed that trend at all.

 

[YOTES2CALL]

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I don't know, 3 of the main Sporting stores I frequent have stopped carrying Leupolds... cold turkey. All quote poor customer service, bad luck on warranty issues, and poor turn around times when they do agree to warranty work...

I have never heard one bad thing about the way the boys at NF treat anyone....


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I'm w/Lerch on this one. Leupy is in great shape. They were a little slow shipping product this last year but had no customer service issues.

Only thing I see wrong w/them is that there RFs suck!!

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I agree with Bill and Lerch on this. yotes2kill must have had dope2smoke on this one.
UB

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Well, believe what you want.... 2 Stores in Rapid and one over in Wyoming that has been in business since 1968 have dropped Leupold scopes. I don't know what they are doing in your part of the country, I simply stated what is happening here around me....

So, Uncleb.... don't poke fun. Come here and I'll take you to the stores. You can hear the owners tell you why, just as I stated....

 

[coupalr]

I am willing to bet that Leupold sales are declining because of the increased quality of cheaper scopes (ie Nikon) not because of a decrease in the quality of the Leupolds.

 

[Hired Gun]

Leupold sales are growing steady over the years. They now have over 600 US family wage paid employees working around the clock to keep up. They have some of the best benefits available including retirement. I wish I worked there.

The holdup on delivery of product for awhile was due to quality issues of some components they recieved from a couple of their suppliers. None of those inferior components went into anything but the dumpster or maybe forwarded back to the venders to be resold to scope makers that aren't so stringent. Their warranty turn around time continues to be the best in the industry. It may appear that more scopes are having warranty issues but that is only due to the fact that they are selling so many more scopes. No one has as broad of product line with as many price entry points.

So tell me. Did these big sporting good stores lay in the Night Force line and if so how is the sales volume of that shelf space profiting now compared to when those shelves were stocked with Leupold? It is more likely they now order what is requested rather than try to stock the huge lineup. A lot of companies do this to reduce their overhead and inventory costs.

 

[Quick Karl]

<font color="blue">Hired Gun... superb spin!

WalMart sells more stuff than local owned stores... I guess if we measure quality by 'quantity', that makes WalMart stuff better?</font>

 

[YOTES2CALL]

Hired Gun,

No, they didn't replace Leupolds with anything. As I am sure you are aware, most people don't have the budget for a NF. I have no problems with them, just simply stated what the local stores have done.

You are exactly correct, they order in what people want.

Look back at my posts you guys, I have never said leupolds suck, are junk or anything. I own 6 of them. from vxII to a mark 4. I just stated what the stores here have done. I do also have NF. And they do for the most part outperform the Leupold scopes. but, that is what you are paying the extra $$ for. They should perform better.

Good day Sir.

 

[Desert Fox]

I'm not sure about VX-III but I own the VariX-III 4.5X14X50 Tactical Mildot. When compared to my MK4 16X Longrange Tactical, the MK is a much better scope. The glass is also much brighter and sharper. Now, I also own an LPS and I can not tell a difference between the two so I pressumed, both have the same glass.

 

[Quick Karl]

<font color="blue">For the record

Back in the day, when Mark IV scopes were REAL Mark IV Scopes, and were very expensive – 10-years ago - I owned a VXIII 4.5x14 40mm which I sent to Leupold to have Target Knobs and a 'black ring' installed, and thereafter sent to Premier Reticles (at Leupold's suggestion) to have a Mildot reticle installed.

This was a 1" tube scope, and I mounted it on a 300WM using the Mark IV bases and rings (yup, they made 1" rings).

Of course, this was prior to Leupold getting the geometry right on the Mark IV rings – on the 'old' Mark IV rings the upper half of the scope rings would crush the scope tubes.

My rifle would shoot consistent 1/2" groups, all day long, with the scope tube crushed by the rings.

The fact that Leupold's rings crushed Leupold's scope irritated the snot outta me, even though the rifle shot incredible, so after talking to the folks at Leupold, and at their suggestion, I removed the scope from the rifle and sent it to them to have the tube repaired.

The scope came back with a new tube, and I had a machinist fix the Mark IV rings – actually manufactured 2 new caps for the rings – and I reinstalled the scope without crushing the tube.

Only prob was, using the exact same ammunition as before I sent the scope in, the rifle would now print 2 distinct group, consistently – same 2 groups, same distance apart, and same orientation to each other.

Of course this irritated the snot outta me so I called Leupold and they said 'send it back', which I did, and they then sent it back to be and said "nothing is wrong with your scope". I reinstalled it and it was shooting 2 distinct groups… Sent it back AGAIN. Got it back from Leupold and installed it AGAIN, and it shot 2 distinct groups… AGAIN.

Sold the scope – the person that purchased the scope called me to discuss the 2 DISTINCT GROUPS his rifle would shoot with that scope…

I could write a second synopsis on 2 other people that owned Leupold scopes that would print 2 distinct groups… but I am tired of typing.

I can not put a Leupold scope on a rifle because I no longer have FAITH in the scopes – no matter HOW MANY TIMES you send it to them for free repairs.

Lastly, I know someone that, in fact, got an invitation to visit the Leupold Facilities... his observation was "their repair facility is twice as large as their manufacturing facility".

Clear enough?</font>

 

[bailey1474]

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The fact that Leupold's rings crushed Leupold's scope irritated the snot outta me, even though the rifle shot incredible, so after talking to the folks at Leupold, and at their suggestion, I removed the scope from the rifle and sent it to them to have the tube repaired.

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Not trying to stir the pot but let me get this straight. They attempted to fixed a scope that was not installed properly and now your ticked at them. Some manufacturers might have just told you it was your baby. I know NF would have. Just read their warranty info. I'd invest in a good in/lb torque wrench of some kind and I bet your confidence in Leupold may return.

 

[YOTES2CALL]

Bill...

are the recommendations still at 15 in/lbs for ring screws and 65 to 68 in/lbs for ring to base screws ???

Thanks.

 

[bailey1474]

I think it's around 20# for the actual ring. Different mfg have different specs. The side nut on a tactical ring is 65 in/lb.

 

[Quick Karl]

<font color="blue">Just so you can get this straight, and to forestall any more stirring of the pot - it was THEIR rings installed by a Gunsmith to LEUPOLD'S TORQUE SPECS.

THEIR RINGS are NO LONGER manufactured the same way, PRECISELY BECAUSE of the problem with crushing scope tubes.

I'll try to make this simple – The OLD Mark IV rings were NOT parted at the centerline of the hole bored through them – they were parted ABOVE the centerline. Without drawing a picture for you (see picture below) this created 2 pressure points on the tube. STEEL rings with these pressure points would probably crush a steel tube, and Leupold scope tubes are aluminum.

It was a BAD DESIGN.

LEUPOLD took THEIR OWN scope apart <u>twice</u> and could not repair it afterwards.

Go figure.

I hope this helps put this issue to rest for you.</font>

 

[bailey1474]

I see now. I'd say a VERY BAD design. Maybe a bad batch of rings??

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LEUPOLD took THEIR OWN scope apart twice and could not repair it afterwards.

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This is the part that gets me. In most, heck all cases of something like this that I have seen they just replaced the scope w/a new one. Everyone makes mistakes though. This looks like it may have been one of theirs.