Vortex vs. Zen-Ray
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vegas steve
Well-Known Member
every part has to be manufactured and all assembly has to be done in japan for it to be really made in japan.if all the parts are manufactured in china,yet it is assembled in japan,it is still chinese made.
Jordan Smith
Well-Known Member
That's not correct. If a certain percentage of the parts are made in Japan, it can be legally labelled as "made in Japan". If assembly is done in China, then it may be labelled as "assembled in China".
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
You are on thin ice with that statement. Lets say assembled in the United States from parts sourced worldwide. There is a blurry line between 'made', 'manufactured' and assembled depending on which side of the corporate desk you reside on.....
Additionally.... There are only 2 places that I know of in the United States that make optical glass elements and neither are within the realm of normal citizens as far as paying for the products they manufacture.
Just had my bubble broken with Eberlestock. I ordered a G2 and then found out it's made in some sweatshop in a Pacific Rim country, despite the nice website and the owner's smiling face as he works on packs... Right. Works on unpacking overseas containers. I fell like sending it back and getting out my old, worn Kelty, made here backpack. The clown is making a killing on the good old consumer. I thought it would be a quality, made in USA pack. I was wrong...again.
It depends entirely on content and time in assembly. It might come from China in bulk and be individually packaged in Japan and depending on trade agreements and tarriff structure, that may make it enough of a percentage to say 'made in Japan'. There are a whole raft of loopholes in adressing the orign's of products.
That is correct and it all has to do with International Trade Agreements.
I kind of like the name 'Zen-Ray'. Sort of like Ray-Ban or death ray.....
42769vette
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its really a mute point, nothing on the razor comes from china. after recent conversations on lr hunting i called terry shamus this morning to clarify (about the pst line).
apparently a regional distributer was extreamly confused on the facts wich started this big rumor
apparently a regional distributer was extreamly confused on the facts wich started this big rumor
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Interesting. It's very hard to follow a trail of any assembly as it is assembled from intrinsic parts. It's equally hard to ascertain where all the parts originated.
Back in the day, it was much easier because parts and assemblies were all sourced from the parent country, Japan or the United States or Germany or England but thats all changed..... and in some cases, parts have to be sourced from offshore the parent country because the are unobtainable in that particular country, or at least ar a price that makes the end product competitive.
I'm reasonably sure that every scope, for that matter every optical device sold to consumers, has parts and assemblies sourced from everywhere....sort of like the car you drive....
Back in the day, it was much easier because parts and assemblies were all sourced from the parent country, Japan or the United States or Germany or England but thats all changed..... and in some cases, parts have to be sourced from offshore the parent country because the are unobtainable in that particular country, or at least ar a price that makes the end product competitive.
I'm reasonably sure that every scope, for that matter every optical device sold to consumers, has parts and assemblies sourced from everywhere....sort of like the car you drive....
Jordan Smith
Well-Known Member
^Yup.
vette,
What did he say about the PST line?
vette,
What did he say about the PST line?
vegas steve
Well-Known Member
hey guys i was tellin it as it was told to me.the source had no reason to lie,and rattled it off as if there was nothing to hide, as if he was proud that the products were made there.seems that every time i try to offer info it is just denied by other folks here just because they don't want to hear the truth. of course mr. shamus will deny it because thats the right thing for business.since the mood point stuff is starting again i will leave this to the vortex lovers and move on.
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Interesting bit of backpedaling on your part in as much as you state in post number 12 in this thread......
.......this is correct. basically,no matter what sticker ends up on vortex optics,they are still manufactured in shenzen china.i was a vortex pro staff shooter for 2 years and know all of this for a fact. on a different note, if these scopes were actually built from scratch in the phillipenes they would be of even less quality.........
You said it, I didn't.
So tell us, now that you've slammed Vortex Optics solely on the opinion of what you were told by someone else, who we have to presume has some sort of axe to grind, is this a fact or opinion. It appears thats it is entirely opinion and conjecture on your part with no basis in fact.
Furthermore, you state you were a 'staff shooter' for 2 years. Is this wishful thinking or is this based on fact and if fact, can you substantiate it?
Talk is very cheap and opinions, especially opinions based entirely (as it appears to be here) on another opinion is no base for the accusations you've made in this thread....
At least from my perspective........
Just say'in.........
vegas steve
Well-Known Member
none of this is opinion,i truly was on the shooting staff for two seasons and talked to alot of company people during that time.all of the info i mentioned in this and the other vortex thread was information based from vortex employees.no,i have not been to the plant in china and watched the manufacturing process first hand,but the sources i received the intel from just flat out had no reason to degrade or lie about the company they work for,hence the information pretty much had to be true.guys i have nothing to hide,i'm not relaying any of this information to hurt someones feelings or to just be an ***,i'm just forwarding information that was presented to me from reliable sources to educate the people spending their hard earned cash.i thought this forum was made to help shooters,which is what i thought i was doing.sorry to dissapoint ya there sherlock holmes but none of this is fiction.
42769vette
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Lrhunting is about helping fellow shooters, but spreading false info doesn't help fellow shooters
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
Referring back to post 23, give us substantiative proof or your comments are nothing more than allegations based on opinions garnered from someone else (as you stated btw).....
I see nothing but opinion based on nothing but another person's opinion.
My other comment is, if you were, in fact, on staff at Vortex, why did you part company and under what circumstances? .....being forthright about that would add or subtract credibility to your statements because at this point, considering your comments in previous posts, I myself find your credibility in question.
Candidly, I don't give a hoot where they are made. They could be made in Lower Slabovia for all I care. They work fine and are clear and concise at least looking through my eyes.
We can discuss this perpetually, however, without substantiative documentation, your comments are nothing more than than opinion and ironically, an opinion based on someone else's opinion. Thats wild.....
I've learned with this forum especially, that the majority of posters on here like their threads served with a generous helping of factual information so thay may form their own opinion.
I see nothing but opinion based on nothing but another person's opinion.
My other comment is, if you were, in fact, on staff at Vortex, why did you part company and under what circumstances? .....being forthright about that would add or subtract credibility to your statements because at this point, considering your comments in previous posts, I myself find your credibility in question.
Candidly, I don't give a hoot where they are made. They could be made in Lower Slabovia for all I care. They work fine and are clear and concise at least looking through my eyes.
We can discuss this perpetually, however, without substantiative documentation, your comments are nothing more than than opinion and ironically, an opinion based on someone else's opinion. Thats wild.....
I've learned with this forum especially, that the majority of posters on here like their threads served with a generous helping of factual information so thay may form their own opinion.
42769vette
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the vortex prostaff is a large group of people that vortex will send x product to for 6 months to play with. at the end of the 6 months they have the option of sending it back or buying the item
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
If someone sent me something to play with, I'd prefer a redhead over an optic anyday.
Just send it in an unmarked container so my wife don't get suspicious....
Just send it in an unmarked container so my wife don't get suspicious....
