Tac arrows original vs. recent?

[OkieBowie]

Question for those who have experience with:
1) Original production runs vs. recent production runs of Tac-15 arrows.
2) Drop-down rests
3) Bare shafts

Have you seen any difference between Original production runs vs. recent production runs of Tac-15 arrows - with regards to precision and consistency when setting center shot with a drop-down rest, using multiple un-fletched arrows?

 

[Twanger]

Caveat - I have not bought any Tac15 arrows in a year.

That said, the 3 arrows I got with the bow (18 months ago) lost their fletchings almost immediately. Not durable at all. They did not have a dab of glue on the leading tip of each fletching.

I bought several dozen subsequently, and they all had the dab of glue, and the fletchings all stayed on heroically well.

 

[OkieBowie]

That said, the 3 arrows I got with the bow (18 months ago) lost their fletchings almost immediately. Not durable at all.

Thanks for the reply. However that is not the kind of precision and consistency I am trying to ask about. (See follow-up post).

 

[OkieBowie]

My question is about precision and consistency of TAC-15 (PSE) shaft itself, between original production runs and current runs. With Precision and consistency of shaft in regards to shaft flexing, how much flex (minimal, minor, medium, lots), where along shaft flex occurs (slightly forward, mid-length, slightly back), and if the flexing is consistent (repeatable).

What I have seen with four original production run Tac-15 shafts:
Shaft #1 - Flexing is minor, and repeatable. Using weak vs. strong side and 90 degree knock rotation gives predictable results. Can be used for adjusting center shot.
Shaft #2 - Flexing is medium, and repeatable. Using weak vs. strong side and 90 degree knock rotation gives predictable results. Not best choice for adjusting center shot.
Shaft #3 - Flexing is medium, and usually repeatable. Using weak vs. strong side and 90 degree knock rotation semi-predictable results. Not good choice for adjusting center.
Shaft # - Flexing is major, and inconsistent. Using weak vs. strong side and 90 degree knock rotation unpredictable outcomes. Great arrow for demonstrating car door penetration, but not much else.

To be clear, I am using a flip-down rest, not a Whisker Biscuit. Based on past experience with Whisker Biscuit, it will tend to cleanup or compensate for bad form (torquing), bad bow limbs (one stronger than other), and somewhat miss-tuned center shot.

At issue, flip-down rests won't mask any shooter or bow problems. Likewise, flip-down rests won't mask any arrow shaft problems. After finding only 1 out of 4 original production run Tac-15 arrows to be good, I was wondering if anybody had seen an improvement with recent production runs of Tac-15 arrows?

 

[Twanger]

I'm interested in understanding your criteria for determining that 3/4 of standard Tac15 arrows are not good.

For example (I shoot a biscuit) I have killed something like 35 deer in the last two seasons with the Tac15 at ranges up to 35 yards with approximately two dozen Tac15 arrows. Some were used again, after washing them off.

All of these arrows hit where they were aimed. I would consider 100% of these arrows to be 'good.'

 

[OkieBowie]

For example (I shoot a biscuit) I have killed something like 35 deer in the last two seasons with the Tac15 at ranges up to 35 yards with approximately two dozen Tac15 arrows.

Two reasons jump out as to why you see 100% perfect arrows and with the original production run batch I have, I saw only 1 out of 4.

1) Killing a deer at 35 yards is nothing for Factory (unmodified) TAC-15 and original arrows (after you re-glue the vanes to where they stay on). Been there, done that. Trying moving out to 100 yard shots and achieving a tight grouping of arrows with Factory TAC-15. Not just firing the same arrow five times at 100 yards, but five different arrows at 100 yards.

2) You are using a Whisker Biscuit, whereas I am using a Drop-down rest. See #2 of my opening post for criteria of my question. Along with my (05-01-2013 12:40 PM) post, where I explain differences between Whisker Biscuit vs. Drop-down rest.
Restated, the Drop-down rest does not mask the variations in arrows, as will a Whisker Biscuit.

To get a further understanding of the issues. Take a look at some of the posts here by jon.henry with regard to ever so subtle differences in weight of arrows effecting shot placement at long distances.
I think you will also find most of those now shooting long distances with TAC-15 started out grouping their arrows as to where they hit (center, 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 9 o'clock and distance from center) on a target; due to variations in the arrows.

Question: Are you concerned enough with accuracy, that you have your Tac-15 arrows marked to where you always shoot each arrow with the same side facing Up?

 

[Twanger]

Yes, I do usually number and mark the arrows so they are loaded the same way each time and I can keep track of them.

Also, of the last two dozen arrows received from PSE I have not had to reglue anything before using them. They came with the dab of glue at the head of the fletching.

Before hunting I shoot them with my practice broadheads heads to make sure they fly well out to 50 yards and then put a real broadhead on them.

Generally I'm happy if the groups are 1-inch or so with field-points at 50 yards. I don't dare shoot the same bullseye with multiple arrows. Three arrows at the same bullseye at 50 yards usually means a busted arrow.

Stock PSE arrows generally group 3 inch at 100 yards for me, out of the box with 100gr field-points. This is not one arrow shot 3 times. This is 3 different arrows. It takes a windless day to achieve this. The wind-drift at 100 yards is absurd - the slightest cross-breeze causes several inches of wind drift.

This 100 yard 3-shot group, for example, shot last year from the table between the headless elk and the target butt:

The black cut-outs in this target are about 3-inches or so. I consider this accuracy pretty acceptable.

I had an 8 year old kid shoot a 4-inch group at 90 yards the first time he tried shooting at that range. 3 different arrows.

Maybe shooting with the stock Whisker Biscuit is the key?

Maybe I've just gotten the luckiest matching set of arrows ever built by PSE?

I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble. I really find the stock Tac15i and stock arrows to be quite robust.

 

[OkieBowie]

Maybe I've just gotten the luckiest matching set of arrows ever built by PSE?

I would say you have been lucky. Quite possibly because your PSE arrows were made sometime after several of us early adopters reported arrow quality issues to PSE.

Here is an example of quality issues:
Yesterday I dug out an unused (essential brand new) set of six PSE arrows that were bought back around August 2010 from PSE. Out of those six; one arrow had an unglued nock, one arrow had poorly glued vanes that came off with a gentle tug, and none of six had glue at leading edge of vanes to help vanes stay attached.

That is without even getting to issues of weight difference between arrows, arrow spline spin (straightness & nock/tip alignment), and arrow spline flexing (direction & amount).

Out of those six arrows, I have only found two which I would go forward with setting up to use for long-range shooting.

You may think I am being to harsh or picky, but if you look around here (and other sites) you will find others have been rejecting high numbers of PSE TAC 15 arrows. One example from another Xbow forum:

When doing it with PSE TAC15 Arrows it also takes 3 or 4 dozen raw shafts to end up with 12 to 18 usable shafts. This is because one must test and sort that number of shafts before you will end up with 12 - 18 who's spine deflection characteristics match closely enough to form a usable group.

 

[Chyhunting]

That is nothing short of awesome! Keep it "Twangin" Twanger!