Swapping out bullets on commerical rounds

pods8

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I'm having a 280AI (traditional) chambered and plan to fire form off 280rem. I've been gathering up components and the Barnes buy 2 get 1 deal at the end of the year offered up the best priced combo I could find. Seems wasteful though to fire off 140gr TTSX to fire form though.

I was pondering on pulling those and reloading in something like a 139gr hornady interlock which I have on hand. I was thinking I'd load up 5 initially and fire sequentially at -2gr, -1.5gr, -1gr, -.5g, full factory powder charge to play it safe with an unknown powder. So far in my experience the longer barnes tend to run a couple grains less powder than a lead core for the same weight so I suspect the factory load would be just fine but I wanted to build up a tiny bit just in case, I'm thinking 2gr under that ideally shouldn't get into too low of a powder charge.

So that was the thought running through my head, let me know if its idiotic. :D
 

pods8

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"So that was the thought running through my head, let me know if its idiotic.."

Its idiotic!!!
Please elaborate, I stated the basis of my thought process (barnes typically take a lighter charge and I was also going to back off another 2gr and step it up). Constructive criticisms please. :)
 

Sully2

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Please elaborate, I stated the basis of my thought process (barnes typically take a lighter charge and I was also going to back off another 2gr and step it up). Constructive criticisms please. :)
Let Gordo pay your insurance premium's and have at it. If you dont know any better that this...you need to learn
 

pods8

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Let Gordo pay your insurance premium's and have at it. If you dont know any better that this...you need to learn
Learn me then.

Yes the powder is an unknown but its not that different than when we're having to use a bullet & powder combo that isn't published so we look at similar combinations and start low and work up.

In my experience in 7mm-08 and 30-06 the barnes of similiar weights take a couple grains less of powder that a lead core typically. Also I was suggesting backing off the powder charge another 2grs. So please clearly quantify the area of concern with trying 2gr less powder for a load shooting a longer 140gr TTSX and putting a 139gr hornady BTSP in there?
 

pods8

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Sully2, could you please elaborate on the basis where you would see concern in this?
 

Sully2

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Sully2, could you please elaborate on the basis where you would see concern in this?
Do you have a reloading manual of any sort...and hopefully more than just 1. Read them carefully especially the parts that deal with making SUBSTITUTIONS to printed loadings.
 

pods8

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Yes I have manuals. As repeatedly asked where exactly is your specific area of concern with the situation I've described along with my thought process? I honestly am open to constructive constructive criticism of it thus the reason I posted here. However currently you've only responded in generalities.

Generally speaking many lead core bullets of the same weight will have a very close charge band for a given powder and as always start low and work up. This is how we deal with not having published data on a specific combination. This happens all the time as new bullets come out, its not so crazy to think about it in reverse. The manufacturer already paired the 140gr TTSX with a safe powder charge. Often we also see that mono bullets have a lower charge for a given pressure/velocity combination for the same bullet weight.

So with those things in mind I've suggested taking the powder charge for a 140gr TTSX (which is likely a bit under max already for a 139gr hornady btsp) and also back it down another 2 grains and work it back up to full in .5gr increments assuming no excess velocity or pressure signs. I could back off a bit more but I wouldn't want to have too low a charge either but I'm open to suggestion.
 

Bravo 4

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I had received a few hundred free factory .308 loaded with FMJ projectiles. They don't group all too well in my rifle so I did what you are talking about. I pulled the bullet, dumped the powder, resized the case neck to hold a bullet, and started reloading with a lower charge of a few grains less and worked up to the full load I had dumped to begin with. I substituted the 147 FMJ with a 150 Hornady SST. It seems to be a lower velocity load @ 2500 fps, but shoots good and is a very cheap load for shorter range practice and deer. I shot about 30 like this so far and deem it very safe to shoot.

I don't see this being anywhere near over pressure if you are reducing the powder on a safe load, loading a bullet of around the same weight (maybe bearing surface) and shooting a .280 in a .280AI chamber to fire form brass. I think you are going about it properly; if you are going to substitute a component then reduce the load and start over.
 

CliffM

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pods8,
I don't think that what you are proposing would be any problem at all.

The only caveat is that you don't know the powder that is in the factory load, which would be a red flag if you were to take that powder and load it into a different cartridge.

BUT,
You are starting with a factory load at a pressure that is deemed safe in all standard chambered rifles.

You are fireforming to a cartridge of greater capacity (about 6gr H2O), thus lower pressure.(Quickload says the same charge at 10,000psi less in the A.I.)

You are say that you are going to start at 2gr lower than the factory charge. I did not see any powder listed in the manuals that required that much of a drop to meet the max load with both bullets.

I have used 280 brass for my 6.5 Sherman and it doesn't really take much pressure to fireform (since I create a false shoulder I prefer the pistol powder/Cream of Wheat method) .


Cliff
 

pods8

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Correct not trying to use the powder in something else. I was thinking drop 2gr at first to play it safe and hopefully the doesn't drop too much to be into squib turf. I suspect the full charge will in reality be fine and would be at that on the 5th round in my proposed plan.
 

pods8

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Btw it's 57gr of ball powder, reviewing the barnes data its likely something near the rl22/v560 burn rate.
 

Bravo 4

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I just asked my buddy that works at the Remington ammo plant, they load all Barnes ammo and he said they use Alliant powder. Doesn't know which one for that load off the top of his head. At least you can get in the ball park.
 

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