Shoulder growing problem

[milboltnut]

I don't see either of us missing anything. Brass spring back is a real thing and it is limited by the hardness of the brass, no by how long you hold pressure on it.

The only thing that really changes the amount of spring back is annealing cases.

The "equal and opposite reaction" is the pressure applied to the neck and shoulder and case body shoulder junctions.

That causes brass to flow one of two ways, up, lengthening the neck or down bulging the base of the case.

Since properly annealed cases are much softer from the shoulders to the mouth the bulk of that brass flow is going to show up in slow growth of the neck.

How long you hold pressure on the die isn't going to affect that flow nor the amount of spring back you get from the brass.

Brass spring back is limited by the hardness of the brass

and annealing solves that problem

I don't see either of us missing anything

sure you are, but that's ok, as long as it works for me and I'm not missing it, that's all that counts, correct?

 

[milboltnut]

I don't see either of us missing anything. Brass spring back is a real thing and it is limited by the hardness of the brass, no by how long you hold pressure on it.

The only thing that really changes the amount of spring back is annealing cases.

The "equal and opposite reaction" is the pressure applied to the neck and shoulder and case body shoulder junctions.

That causes brass to flow one of two ways, up, lengthening the neck or down bulging the base of the case.

Since properly annealed cases are much softer from the shoulders to the mouth the bulk of that brass flow is going to show up in slow growth of the neck.

How long you hold pressure on the die isn't going to affect that flow nor the amount of spring back you get from the brass.

you over think things man !

LOL

Since properly annealed cases are much softer from the shoulders to the mouth the bulk of that brass flow is going to show up in slow growth of the neck.

when you bump a shoulder not from annealing.... I think you need to go back to the drawing board, you really do man !

 

[WildRose]

you over think things man !

LOL


when you bump a shoulder not from annealing.... I think you need to go back to the drawing board, you really do man !

It's from both. The softer the brass the more it will flow when you resize.

You should probably refrain from the condescension especially when you don't understand the subject matter.

 

[WildRose]

sure you can, it's common sense man.

If you form metal long enough it keeps its shape. I see it's easier to remove the case from the die after holding it for awhile, unlike in and out, and the right amount of lube REGARDLESS MLN 1963 then what lube you use makes the difference.


Ahhh yeah, the neck for sure IF you oversize the case, the shoulder get moved forward a bit if you do it too fast. The shoulder/body junction is being formed and the brass flows up.. I see that when I gauge them. There's clearance between the shoulder in the die and the case shoulder so it has room to, well, move.

Common sense tells us you need to read up on the properties of brass.

 

[milboltnut]

It's from both. The softer the brass the more it will flow when you resize.

You should probably refrain from the condescension especially when you don't understand the subject matter.

you overthink things bro. It flows more because it has room to flow, and unless the die is adjusted correctly it will not size accordingly, simple.

 

[milboltnut]

It's from both. The softer the brass the more it will flow when you resize.

You should probably refrain from the condescension especially when you don't understand the subject matter.

I don't understand the subject matter.... ? LOL ANYBODY can successfully load ammunition it's not that difficult. But you make it difficult.

All you have to do is picture in your mind what is going on in the die, unless you can't do that.

 

[WildRose]

I don't understand the subject matter.... ? LOL ANYBODY can successfully load ammunition it's not that difficult. But you make it difficult.

All you have to do is picture in your mind what is going on in the die, unless you can't do that.

Obviously you don't at least as far as the properties of brass are concerned.

I could train a monkey to resize brass, that doesn't mean he'll understand the properties of brass.

 

[milboltnut]

Obviously you don't at least as far as the properties of brass are concerned.

I could train a monkey to resize brass, that doesn't mean he'll understand the properties of brass.

bottom line again is it works for me and that is all that matters.

 

[6pakzak]

bottom line again is it works for me and that is all that matters.

Well instead of going back and forth on this I decided to give it a try, it's simple enough, first body sized and set shoulder with Redding body die, measured shoulder, put case back in die and held it there for 2 minutes with die left alone, no change in setting, took case out and measured again and shoulder measured exactly the same.

 

[milboltnut]

Well instead of going back and forth on this I decided to give it a try, it's simple enough, first body sized and set shoulder with Redding body die, measured shoulder, put case back in die and held it there for 2 minutes with die left alone, no change in setting, took case out and measured again and shoulder measured exactly the same.

Well then yes you need to adjust the die a bit Zak

 

[6pakzak]

Well instead of going back and forth on this I decided to give it a try, it's simple enough, first body sized and set shoulder with Redding body die, measured shoulder, put case back in die and held it there for 2 minutes with die left alone, no change in setting, took case out and measured again and shoulder measured exactly the same.

First case was annealed, just tried on second case that was not annealed, held for 10 seconds cause 2 minutes is ridiculous, after 10 seconds shoulder remained in same spot as when I measured after quickly putting through die, same procedure as annealed case, difference was the un annealed case did not push shoulder back as far as annealed case, I never adjusted the die and I fully expected it not to push the shoulder back as far, both cases started with shoulder in same spot.

 

[milboltnut]

First case was annealed, just tried on second case that was not annealed, held for 10 seconds cause 2 minutes is ridiculous, after 10 seconds shoulder remained in same spot as when I measured after quickly putting through die, same procedure as annealed case, difference was the un annealed case did not push shoulder back as far as annealed case, I never adjusted the die and I fully expected it not to push the shoulder back as far, both cases started with shoulder in

Then I don't know what to tell you you're on your own

 

[PddPdd]

same procedure as annealed case, difference was the un annealed case did not push shoulder back as far as annealed case, I never adjusted the die and I fully expected it not to push the shoulder back as far, both cases started with shoulder in same spot.

This is exactly what should happen in terms of body sizing an annealed vs. un-annealed case due to spring back with un-annealed case. The annealed case allows the case to be reformed with less force and deflection due to it's softened (by annealing) state.

 

[milboltnut]

This is exactly what should happen in terms of body sizing an annealed vs. un-annealed case due to spring back with un-annealed case. The annealed case allows the case to be reformed with less force and deflection due to it's softened (by annealing) state.

Getting on a kick of annealing that prevents less force instead of sayin less work hardening. Work harding decreases the life of the case. I never noticed less force on annealed cases