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Schmidt & Bender delivery schedule.
- Thread starter Pete Lincoln
- Start date
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Pete Lincoln
Well-Known Member
To answer your question:
The 3-12x50 PMII can already be had with the P4.
to comment further:
Ive been in discussion with S&B about what reticles should be available in what scopes, my idea was all of them in all of them. plus some additional reticle options.
Ive spoken at length to the tech in charge of reticles. ive convinced him in several issues, (he has inturn convinced Hans.)
reticles for target shooting, F class etc need to be thinner, the current mildot and the P4 are fine for use as sniper reticles, and yes are usable as target reticles,however. as a sniper, and don't forget the PMII's are primarily designed as sniper scopes, i put the reticle on my target and i expect to shoot once, 1 shot - 1 kill. i do not expect to make multiple shots on the same target,, (i don't see many insurgents standing around whilst one of our snipers shoots a 1/4 MOA 5 shot group on him.) but in a target shooting capacity, in many disciplins, shooting a tight group, in the same place every time is the name of the game, and it is difficult to shoot a 1/4 moa group when the reticle you are using covers 1`/2 moa.
I want, and we will see thinner versions (infact the design that the P4 is based on, my design, was actualy thinner in subtension) as is the Klein reticle, ive used all the reticles at one point or another, the Klein is the best i've used for target and long range hunting, due to its thinner centre cross subtention, which is near as **** 50% the subtention of the standard mildot, (the klein is basicaly the same as the Gen 2 mildot, but thinner) now the natural progression from the klein or any reticle with dots is to move over to hash marks entirely, dots bieng out dated and coming from an era where dots where made by pinching wire reticles, no need for dots now.
hence we have the most usable reticle of all in my oppinion, the P4. but i want it thinner. I see no use, exept perhaps for long range prarie dog shooting. for reticle like those from Horus, which are by the way, available (at considerable extra cost) in the S&B PMII range.
Thinner is in the pipe line, infact ive a few scopes on special order with "thinner" specified.
Due to the back log on the 5-25 and the 4-16's at the mo, i expect custom spec reticles will be a while, so maybe i'll have to make do with what comes and send scopes back in for a reticle change later.
Either way, exciting things are happening at S&B, soon we will see many more options available and a market research department that are (through my head banging against brick walls) more intune to what is required by 1: the Military Sniper. 2: the LE Sniper. 3. The long range target shooter. 4. the long range hunter. 5. the field target airgun shooter. not to mention new scope developements which will suit the designated marksman, the night time hunter, nv compatability of reticles, and the like.
going back to the thinner reticles, the concern of the S&B tech was,, quote "but is the thinner reticle fat enough to see in low light in the 5-25 and the 4-16 etc..? "
my answer was." your talking about paralax and reticle illumination equiped scopes right? "
" yes" . he was.
So when i can't see the reticle any more, i use the **** illumination, thats what its there for and not bercause serious shooters like christmas tree lights.
hope ive answered you question and given some insite info into the current and future inventory of S&B.
regards Pete
The 3-12x50 PMII can already be had with the P4.
to comment further:
Ive been in discussion with S&B about what reticles should be available in what scopes, my idea was all of them in all of them. plus some additional reticle options.
Ive spoken at length to the tech in charge of reticles. ive convinced him in several issues, (he has inturn convinced Hans.)
reticles for target shooting, F class etc need to be thinner, the current mildot and the P4 are fine for use as sniper reticles, and yes are usable as target reticles,however. as a sniper, and don't forget the PMII's are primarily designed as sniper scopes, i put the reticle on my target and i expect to shoot once, 1 shot - 1 kill. i do not expect to make multiple shots on the same target,, (i don't see many insurgents standing around whilst one of our snipers shoots a 1/4 MOA 5 shot group on him.) but in a target shooting capacity, in many disciplins, shooting a tight group, in the same place every time is the name of the game, and it is difficult to shoot a 1/4 moa group when the reticle you are using covers 1`/2 moa.
I want, and we will see thinner versions (infact the design that the P4 is based on, my design, was actualy thinner in subtension) as is the Klein reticle, ive used all the reticles at one point or another, the Klein is the best i've used for target and long range hunting, due to its thinner centre cross subtention, which is near as **** 50% the subtention of the standard mildot, (the klein is basicaly the same as the Gen 2 mildot, but thinner) now the natural progression from the klein or any reticle with dots is to move over to hash marks entirely, dots bieng out dated and coming from an era where dots where made by pinching wire reticles, no need for dots now.
hence we have the most usable reticle of all in my oppinion, the P4. but i want it thinner. I see no use, exept perhaps for long range prarie dog shooting. for reticle like those from Horus, which are by the way, available (at considerable extra cost) in the S&B PMII range.
Thinner is in the pipe line, infact ive a few scopes on special order with "thinner" specified.
Due to the back log on the 5-25 and the 4-16's at the mo, i expect custom spec reticles will be a while, so maybe i'll have to make do with what comes and send scopes back in for a reticle change later.
Either way, exciting things are happening at S&B, soon we will see many more options available and a market research department that are (through my head banging against brick walls) more intune to what is required by 1: the Military Sniper. 2: the LE Sniper. 3. The long range target shooter. 4. the long range hunter. 5. the field target airgun shooter. not to mention new scope developements which will suit the designated marksman, the night time hunter, nv compatability of reticles, and the like.
going back to the thinner reticles, the concern of the S&B tech was,, quote "but is the thinner reticle fat enough to see in low light in the 5-25 and the 4-16 etc..? "
my answer was." your talking about paralax and reticle illumination equiped scopes right? "
" yes" . he was.
So when i can't see the reticle any more, i use the **** illumination, thats what its there for and not bercause serious shooters like christmas tree lights.
hope ive answered you question and given some insite info into the current and future inventory of S&B.
regards Pete
Pete,
Good reply. i think I'll be going for a thinner PM2 ret one day....got in touch with horus a few weeks ago ...they wanted $500 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif to have one of their rets put in a S&B (versus about $200 S&B charge for a 'normal' ret change)...absolutely ridiculous!!
Good to hear S&B may have some decent alternatives in the pipeline..
..and don't forget to keep pushing them to do the 4-16x42 without that illum ret b*ll*cks!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Good reply. i think I'll be going for a thinner PM2 ret one day....got in touch with horus a few weeks ago ...they wanted $500 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif to have one of their rets put in a S&B (versus about $200 S&B charge for a 'normal' ret change)...absolutely ridiculous!!
Good to hear S&B may have some decent alternatives in the pipeline..
..and don't forget to keep pushing them to do the 4-16x42 without that illum ret b*ll*cks!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
FatBoy...
Well-Known Member
Pete,
you let them know when they get the Target model ready for testing (variable to at least 25x, 35x is better) I'm ready to do their 1000y testing. I've got a few 6.5x284's and an upcoming 284win that would do well to give the S&B a ring out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I figure, about fourty individual 1000y matches next year. Or, roughly translated into, two 6.5x barrels and some throat errosion on a 6BR.
I'll be holding my breath /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Chris...
you let them know when they get the Target model ready for testing (variable to at least 25x, 35x is better) I'm ready to do their 1000y testing. I've got a few 6.5x284's and an upcoming 284win that would do well to give the S&B a ring out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I figure, about fourty individual 1000y matches next year. Or, roughly translated into, two 6.5x barrels and some throat errosion on a 6BR.
I'll be holding my breath /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Chris...
Pete Lincoln
Well-Known Member
Chris, you get a trip back to the fatherland organised and i'll get a site/factory visit at S&B arranged (well do leica at the same time) you can help convince the " men in loden jackets" not to mention share a few weizen biers with me.
Pete.
Pete.
Pete Lincoln
Well-Known Member
Yes, feel free to email S&B, call S&B and write to S&B,,pester the hell out of them, quote my name and lets get them to build what we want, and then the "men in loden coats" will finaly realise (again) that that blad from Yorkshire knows what he is talking about.
regards pete
regards pete
