Reloading 45-70

[Mackinaw BOB]

I'm interested in working up a load for my marlin 1895 CBA 20 inch barrel. I have 200 pieces of new starline brass and a box of 250 HSM 405 grain cast flat nose bullets to get started with. I'm not sure what powders to start with. My goal here is to find a load that will shoot accurately out to 150 yards max as this is my brush gun. Any first hand experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

[xsn10s]

I used Hornady 350gr with IMR3031. But that was over twenty years ago. There's probably better loads out there now. The guide said he never saw a caribou go down so hard. Around a 50 yard running shot.

 

[112Savage]

I would start with RL7 or IMR4198 and work up using data from Hornady or the Lyman cast bullet reloader's guide.

 

[RT2506]

Another good cast bullet powder is Accurate 5744. I will pass on what I have learned from the school of hard knocks using the 45-70. For on game usage I would use a jacketed SP or HP bullet. The 300 gr Sierra or Hornady HP using Sierra's suggested hunting load with IMR 4198 is a deer size game killer and is about as flat shooting as a 45-70 can shoot. If larger game like big black bear the Hornady 350 SP is better because it is a little tougher bullet for breaking bone and penetration others have told me. The old 405 gr SPs from Speer or Remington are also good heavy big game bullets that expand and penetrate. When it comes to cast bullets on game they will kill but they do it by putting a caliber size hole though vitals. In my experience using a home cast Lyman 405 flat nose which comes out at 418 grs from my mix propelled by Black Powder or AA5744 to 1400 fps will punch a caliber size hole through a deer from any direction and keep on going. Unless you hit central nerve system they will run off a ways and not always leave a good blood trail because the hide stretches and then snaps back and about seals the hole and the blood does not get out well. The 300 gr HPs expand well and really do a job on vitals and put good exit holes and IF the deer does not drop on the spot it don't go far and a blind man could follow the blood trail. The 45-70 is not a flat shooting caliber. For example with the Lyman bullet mentioned above at 1400 fps there is a 5" drop between 50 & 100 yards and 6" drop from 100 to 150. I shot these cast bullets in my Sharps copy 1874 45-70. The hotter smokeless loads in a Marlin. When dealing with the 45-70 especially with cast bullets the old saying a freight train don't have to be going too fast to run through a bunch of stuff. These suckers penetrate.

 

[XTR]

I used Hornady 350gr with IMR3031. But that was over twenty years ago. There's probably better loads out there now. The guide said he never saw a caribou go down so hard. Around a 50 yard running shot.

That still works.

The OP has realistic expectations with a 150yd gun. Now you need to decide whether or not you need to kill T-Rex or just deer.

I've got two 45-70s, one is a C Sharps that I only shoot Holy Back and galena the other is a Miroku Winchester Highwall with a 24" barrel. I've run that one up to slobber knocking 2400FPS with 350s. In a rifle that weighs less than 9 lbs that will give you all the fun you need in a short time. You should do it once and if you don't separate a retina or loosen fillings you'll have had enough and you can get to a load that makes sense. (I did)

These days I run my loads in the range of 1600 to 1800FPS depending on the bullet. i shoot Sierra and Hornady 350s and Remington 405s with IMR 3031. It will shoot though just about anything in North America from any angle at reasonable ranges.

I tried a lot of powders, a whole lot of powders when I was experimenting. Acc 5744, Rx7, and IMR3031 are the best options that I found with smokeless. The case is designed for black powder, and it is way over capacity for smokeless. Don't be tempted to try the slower powders in the range of Varget. You'll have unbruned powder in the bore, the pressure never gets up enough.

Get a Lyman reloading manual. It has a lot of good loading info for the 45-70 with smokeless.

I'd advise either getting a scope like the Swaro Z3 with the BRH retical or something similar. The drop on a 45-70 is dramatic past 100 yards. Depending on your load it's 18-24 inches from 100 to 200 yards. I have to look but I think my load works out to dropping ½ mil per 25 yds from 100 to 200, which works great in the BRH since it's got dots or hashes ever ½ mil.

 

[boscodog]

With 405 grn cast performance bullets, I'm getting 2090 ft./s out of a 22" barrel using 50 1/2 grns of H-4198, That should do the trick if you're trying to break big bones and knock down big stuff!

Tom

 

[112Savage]

With a max load of IMR4198 for their respective weights I run both the 300 grain Speer unicore and a 425 gr FPGC hardcast. Both have killed deer and pigs but I really like the 300 grain bullet better due to it only dropping 9" @ 200yds.

 

[Greyfox]

I have also gotten my best results with 300-405gr bullets with IMR3031. The Hornady 350Gr SP was exceptionally accurate.

 

[Mackinaw BOB]

Thanks for all the insight guy, today I picked up some IMR-3031 and some reloader 7. Also picked up some Hornady 300 grain HP. It will probably be December or so before I get any time to work up a load with rifle season around the corner, but will try to post my results when I get a load worked up. Thanks for the help

 

[Mackinaw BOB]

I had two pounds of 5574 in my cart today but they were $42 a pound if I remember correctly. I put them back when I found the 3031. They only had one pound of 4198 and I like to buy two pounds at a time. My luck I would buy the one pound, work up a load that was spectacular and then be out of powder with no more in site and have to start over

 

[longtubeman]

Best power I have found is reloaded 7, with 210m primers. I use custom 405 sp, and 300 ap bullets in a handy rifle, that's 22". 405s with 48 gr of reloaded 7 go 1950fps, and 300s with 52 gr of reloaded 7 go 2150fps. Both do about .250 group at 100yrds. Not too bad to shoot. If you use slower power it has too much push, and just beats you up too much

 

[bengineer]

OP- remember every shot with a 1400-1800fps bullet is a meatsaver shot. No bloodshot means you can truly eat right up to the hole. Consider what Nathan Foster says about his 45/70 experiences at ballisticstudies.com. My experiences mirror his: wide nose bullet makes large hole, disproportionate to caliber, especially considering relatively low velocity. Study Veral Smith's work to understand even more clearly.
I use imr4198, a5744 and imr3031 mostly. I shoot cast ranch dog 350, 425 and LBT 450 LFN. I can soften or harden my alloy for varying velocities and terminal results. I use hard to break bones, soft for mushrooming. But remember, every 45/70 shot is a meatsaver!

 

[longrangebob]

I have shot my 45-70 for decades - started with 4198 & 3031 & 4064 preferred the first 2 - & stayed with them in 300, 350, & 405 groaners - then moved to Pile Driver 520's and stayed with them & my own Cast Bullets 405's & 550's

Changed to 550 paper patched in my Original Action Winchester 1885 HighWall - 65 grs. FFG & I found a load of AA5744 that prints to the same spot (I have 3/4" Malcolm Telescopic sight with twin horizontal crosshairs good @ 100 yds & 200 yds. Respectively — love it !!!

Also my 1895 Marlin Guide Gun — digests my 550's quite nicely but it is almost always relegated to my 520 Pile Drivers or 405's -

now if you're really intrigued by the 45-70 —- consider a peep sight — & Read Paul Matthews Books on the 45-70

 

[arch408]

I do long range cowboy shooting. Almost everyone who doesn't use black powder loads with 5744. I shoot 530 grain cast bullets and tried from 25 to 28 grains. and the the best sustained accuracy seems be around 1200 feet per second. We shoot 35 shots in a match so we really don't want high velocity/hard recoil loads. I started with 405 bullets but now I shoot 530 grain bullets exclusively. Some body mentioned 5744 at $42 a pound. I buy 8 pound kegs and I think I a little over $30 a pound for it. Watch sales at Midway. They sometimes Free hazmat if you buy over $150 besides having discounts. Also, there s a powder manufacturer called Shooters World and they have an identical powder labeled Buffalo Rifle Powder. I got an 8 pound keg for about $20 per pound. I've experimented with it and it seems to perform about the same as 5744. For hunting loads you should be able to push the 405 grain bullet considerably faster. Shooters World data shows 30 grains at 1425 fps with 18,200 psi, and 34.5 grains at 1608 with 28,000 psi. It has been awhile, but I think I ordered this powder from Midsouth. Just checked and Midsouth and Graff and Sons have it for $22 per pound and $150 per keg. Good luck.