there used to be smiths on here that built their own actions and had them proof tested at 125,000+psi. having a larger barrel tenion for more steel around the chamber and Alpha has a very strong head design it is possible to go 80,000+psi. i am not convinced their calculations were that accurate. using quickload to determine pressure by the percentage of velocity difference from actual to predicted would not be my first choice. i would like to see this test done with actual pressure testing equipment and not the swag method. 45-46gr of varget with 168 is a pretty stout and full load going above that with a 215, you make your own conclusion.
Reading Pressure
- Thread starter Weaver93
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Couple things,
If you want your .308 Win to perform like a 300 safely, just get a 300.
Now as to pressure. Visuals aren't a good indicator for pressure. Too many variables like primer cup hardness, chamber dimension(min/max) etc.
The most reliable way to know if you're getting close to max without having a strain gauge, is to use case head measurements in conjunction with a chronograph.
You'll discover that in most cases the velocity gain will flatten between consecutive loads on the ladder; while at the same time your head measurements of your brass will be very close to or at your max.
For a step by step on how to use the case head measurement method - search my recent posts, I just wrote a how to (3?) posts ago.
If you want your .308 Win to perform like a 300 safely, just get a 300.
Now as to pressure. Visuals aren't a good indicator for pressure. Too many variables like primer cup hardness, chamber dimension(min/max) etc.
The most reliable way to know if you're getting close to max without having a strain gauge, is to use case head measurements in conjunction with a chronograph.
You'll discover that in most cases the velocity gain will flatten between consecutive loads on the ladder; while at the same time your head measurements of your brass will be very close to or at your max.
For a step by step on how to use the case head measurement method - search my recent posts, I just wrote a how to (3?) posts ago.
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
My thoughts as well when watching this video.
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Hard to go against that logic. There is everything from 30BR to 30XC available in the market, no reason to push things past the point of sanity. Build whatever you want, but for us average Joes don't try to make a little case something it's not.
I have a 6-twist 40" barrel blank for a 30-338 Lapua Improved to see how far a CE mono will go
No matter how awesome it is..... it'll still be easily spanked by a 375 CheyTac though.
Sealesniper
Well-Known Member
What was the point of this video? Is it marketing for Alpha Munitions brass? I just don't understand the need to demonstrate what their data provided? If it is something no one should try to duplicate, and I certainly would not, I just don't see the point of the whole endeavor. It has been stated previously, but if you want 300WM performance, shoot a 300WM. Looking at the barrel and action, that is not a carry rifle. Just because you can, does not mean you should, and I still circle back to what was the point. Am I missing something?
Youtube guys need content out there. The more controversial it is the better sometimes to get folks watching. The Bat guy probably went along to show how strong the action is a little free publicity. Same for Alpha
memtb
Well-Known Member
I have had problems finding recent, actually any, reloading data for my cartridge.
While I certainly don't recommend my method…..it hasn't failed me yet! I have a small plastic mallet, if it requires more than one blow on the bolt to open the bolt……I've exceeded the safe margin!
Is it too early for an "April Fools" joke? memtb
While I certainly don't recommend my method…..it hasn't failed me yet! I have a small plastic mallet, if it requires more than one blow on the bolt to open the bolt……I've exceeded the safe margin!
Is it too early for an "April Fools" joke? memtb
more than one blow was because you forgot to loosen the set screws you used to lock the bolt from blowing backwardsI have had problems finding recent, actually any, reloading data for my cartridge.
While I certainly don't recommend my method…..it hasn't failed me yet! I have a small plastic mallet, if it requires more than one blow on the bolt to open the bolt……I've exceeded the safe margin!
Is it too early for an "April Fools" joke? memtb
memtb
Well-Known Member
memtb
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I can't watch the video from here, but high pressure, and pressure 'problems' are separate and different.
With a plan, you can build a gun for higher pressure, and yeah a BAT would be a good part of the plan, due to strength of the lugs/action overall..
For the brass part of the problem, you would likely need to rethink what you think about reloading.
I doubt 100+Kpsi would be useful over ~75Kpsi competitive short range BR loads. That is, with brass cases.
But high pressure can be very useful (for way better than just MV).
It reaches into diminished returns (a flattening of the peak) which usually equals diminished variance of returns.
You might see an example of this without extreme pressures;
People find that firing a normal load with new/unfired cases, can produce results that are more consistent (and better) than the same with FF'd cases. This is because some of the pressure peak is consumed (flattened) to expand the new cases.
Well an action & chamber can also give in like this, with high enough pressures, and this can be considered in the build plan.
Bruce Thom (BAT) helped me once with an action choice for a 26wssm.
I went into it thinking 'short' action, Bruce convinced me to think 'magnum' action.
Get the appropriate barrel steel around that chamber. He was right.
Combined with a fitted chamber (to new WSSM brass), I could viably/long term run pressures at 75Kpsi+.
With a plan, you can build a gun for higher pressure, and yeah a BAT would be a good part of the plan, due to strength of the lugs/action overall..
For the brass part of the problem, you would likely need to rethink what you think about reloading.
I doubt 100+Kpsi would be useful over ~75Kpsi competitive short range BR loads. That is, with brass cases.
But high pressure can be very useful (for way better than just MV).
It reaches into diminished returns (a flattening of the peak) which usually equals diminished variance of returns.
You might see an example of this without extreme pressures;
People find that firing a normal load with new/unfired cases, can produce results that are more consistent (and better) than the same with FF'd cases. This is because some of the pressure peak is consumed (flattened) to expand the new cases.
Well an action & chamber can also give in like this, with high enough pressures, and this can be considered in the build plan.
Bruce Thom (BAT) helped me once with an action choice for a 26wssm.
I went into it thinking 'short' action, Bruce convinced me to think 'magnum' action.
Get the appropriate barrel steel around that chamber. He was right.
Combined with a fitted chamber (to new WSSM brass), I could viably/long term run pressures at 75Kpsi+.
PApa Black
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
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Very interesting!
M1A1ABRAMS
Well-Known Member
It's published now. lol
For me, the take aways are:
Special action
Premium "Special" brass
Reamer provided and matched to brass by brass manufacturer
Assembled by an experienced meticulus gunsmith
Loaded and shot by experience people
So pay attention to the message that flushed several times "Please Don't try this at home"
Sidenote: I remember reading that when Roy Weatherby was developing his action, he had it tested to 100K. It doesn't mean if I reach say 85K my bolt won't lock up. Don't ask me how I know that. Just know the rifle survived intact and still shoots sub MOA
Special action
Premium "Special" brass
Reamer provided and matched to brass by brass manufacturer
Assembled by an experienced meticulus gunsmith
Loaded and shot by experience people
So pay attention to the message that flushed several times "Please Don't try this at home"
Sidenote: I remember reading that when Roy Weatherby was developing his action, he had it tested to 100K. It doesn't mean if I reach say 85K my bolt won't lock up. Don't ask me how I know that. Just know the rifle survived intact and still shoots sub MOA
Amen to that, at least when it's available.
I get a giggle out of the words "I pushed it to" this or that speed, "no pressure signs" and of then there is the good old "I ran a pressure test" today....
