Radial barrel fluting

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by milanuk, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    I've been quite fascinated by the article in the latest 'The Accurate Rifle' magazine on the .338 Edge Hard Target Interdiction Rifle, or HTIR. Seems like it'd be right up the alley for some of the long range hunting scenarios.

    Part of what really has my wheels spinning is the radial fluting on the barrel from Wes Harris, w/ the integral muzzle brake.

    Anyone here have any experience w/ these radial fluting jobs, or w/ Wes Harris Gunworks? To quote from the article:

    Wes makes radial (circumferential) cuts on the exterior of the barrel about 1/8" apart. You are left w/ a barrrel that is one diameter at every 1/8th inch and another at ever other 1/8th inch. Wes uses this method for faster barrel heat dissipation. Wes calls them "Insta-Kool" and claims a 10 fold increase in heat dissipation. He also states that the radial flutes break up harmonics so that accuracy is enhanced."

    They go on to talk about the lands appearing wider than normal, and it turns out "the rifling is polygonal... there are no grooves. Better seal of the bullet, no distortion, therefore better accuracy results. We do this type of rifling in 7mm, .308, and .338 only."

    You guys are the long range experts, what's your take on this?

    Thanks,

    Monte

    [ 09-28-2002: Message edited by: milanuk ]
     
  2. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Bump
     
  3. littletoes

    littletoes Well-Known Member

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    Seen this done to some Ruger pistols with custom barrels in a some magazine, years ago. The smith at that time claimed the same results.
     
  4. ppro

    ppro Well-Known Member

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    You may want to check out statistical results on this type of fluting at Varmit Al's site: www.varmintal.com/aflut.htm

    This may answer your question re circular fluting.
    Paul
     
  5. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    by barrel "flutting " as circular grooves / cut in the barrel that true you increaseheat surface exchange (a heat exhanger ) but you loose stiffness and a lot stiffness of your barel

    LILJA article on barrel stiffness is great and varmintalweb site give a clever well made software in basic to compute stiffness

    question :does the new weapon HTIG ( terrific mane ) in 338 in a machine gun or do you really think that heavy cooling system is a need or a must on a real sniper weapon ? .

    some year ago Bruce BAER have make some barrel with this design just for FUN .

    good shooting

    DAN TEC
     
  6. daveosok

    daveosok Guest

    My two cents

    As it sits, a lot of eye candy, call the round an "Ultra" and you increase sales, call it "Short Magnum" and sales increase, "Radial Fluting" is nothing more.
    You do get more surface area, and compared to a barrel of the same shape and length without fluting, the fluted barrel will disapate heat quicker.

    One thing they never talk about is imparted stresses during the machining process of fluting. Any time you machine a metal you impart new stresses into it, without stress relieving it when heat is added to it it will be an unstable platform and unpredicatable movements will accompany the heat changes.

    Its neat and I think it does cool down quicker, but as a rule when Sniping never fire more than 3 rounds, so with that being said is the cost worth the cool name? I doubt it, gimmicks, snake oil, and charmers come up with flashy new names and new methods after all you can only go so far with a gun before you call it what? A gun is a gun is a gun?
     
  7. wwharris

    wwharris New Member

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    Regarding Radial Flutting...It is coined by Harris Barrelworks in Phoenix. I designed it for long range shooting in Australia where the ambiant temperature is 105 F. Using a 30/378 and 300 Ultra I was able to make shots at 500 to 990 yards in rapid succession with 16 kills for 17 shots. The barrel never overheated and the harmonics are non existant. Barrel length 28" measures .700@ muzzel. Used Horus Vision 4-16 Scope with H-2 long range reticle, Atrag 1S5 ballistic aiming system...in fact, these were two of 6 test rifles used to perfect the Horus Shooting System.
     
  8. Tim Behle

    Tim Behle Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Harris,

    Can you post a couple of pictures for us? You may just be the inspiration I need to make that long drive up to Phoenix when the weather cools down [​IMG]
     
  9. jhendri2

    jhendri2 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it works or not, but I don't want something that looks like a giant drill bit hanging off the end of my action.

    Jim
     
  10. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Jim,

    Perhaps you are confusing helical fluting, like E.R. Shaw advertises, w/ the radial fluting, from Harris Gunworks?

    While I think it looks O.K., that's just based off of seeing a few pictures here and there, mostly B&W, and from a distance. Might change my mind if I were to handle one in person. Maybe not.

    To each their own,

    Monte
     
  11. jhendri2

    jhendri2 Well-Known Member

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    Milanuk,

    I know one looks like a drill bit and the other looks like a bunch of rings glued together. I saw the article in Accurate Rifle, and it had the one that looks like a bunch of rings.

    As you say, to each his own.

    Darryl, Steve Shelp, Dave, et al.,

    How many of these "different" fluting patterns have you seen at 1000 yard comps?

    Like I've always said, it's your gun, build what you want, these are just my opinions.

    Jim
     
  12. Steve Shelp

    Steve Shelp Well-Known Member

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    To simply answer your question..... none. Some LG class rifles used fluting, but it's the std fluting used to save weight only.

    Even in HG class to where you fire normally 5-8 sigthers then 10 rds for your record string in 30-45 secs, barrels don't get that hot externally that quickly for me to warrant the expense of this type of fluting. The only time I've ever had barrel heat trouble in competition was in 2000 during the NBRSA championship match to where you fire 3 relays back-to-back with the same gun. My 338 has 2" Lilja barrel on it and it was hot then. Had a rig to pour ice water down the barrel and had ice cold towels wrapped around the outside of it. That still wasn't enough. So special fluting does increase your surface area and it does cool quicker, but does it cool quickly enough during the practical application in which the rifle is used..... I'm not sold on that a this point in time.

    In regard to harmonics.... The biggest thing long barrels have to overcome upon firing (and this is based on tests done and monitored on an oscilliscope(spelling?)) is the sagging moment and getting rid of the up/down whiping of the barrel. This circular fluting only weakens the barrel in this aspect and compounds the problem. But I would be curious to see the harmonic patterns produced by this barrel though. As an engineer I never rule anything out without hard data to go by. And I'm only going by first thoughts and common sense right now. And we all know bubble bees can't fly also.

    Steve
     
  13. jhendri2

    jhendri2 Well-Known Member

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    Steve,

    Thanks for the very good reply. I agree with all of your statements. I like the "look" of standard fluting, but as a practical appliction in regards to accuracy, I think the myriad of flutings available is hyperbole. I don't want to be disrespectful, but in my opinion it's just another way for various barrel manufacturers to "stand-out" among the the others available as a different marketing scheme. Just build an exceptional barrel at a fair price and you'll have more business than you know what to do with.

    Again, these are just my opinions.

    Jim
     
  14. Ronin Rifles

    Ronin Rifles Well-Known Member

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    The fluting remindes me of older machine gun barrels.(I also think they got it on 20mm and 40mm guns in WW II} I would think they would work better than regular fluting because they used them in machine guns where you fire alot more rounds. For rapid cooling of rifle barrels I noticed that JP Enterprise makes a heat sink finned aluminum block for AR-15 barrels. I recall reading their ad, that it cools faster than a fluted barrel and is lighter. Does anybody have experience with it? I was thinking of trying that radial fluted barrel for my AR-15 when my Krueger barrel is worn out.