R700 SA build... 7SAUM?

[catamountsierra]

I am planning on having 7mm-08 built once I get some money together. I have been quite pleased with it as is, but have wanted to build it since before I bought it. After initially toying with 7mm-08AI or 284 Win as potential chamberings, I got to talking to my brother, and am now seriously considering going all the way up to the 7SAUM. I figure that if the 7mm-08 would do fine for most any game here in Idaho, the SAUM should be able to do it farther out and better. This will be my primary hunting rifle until I manage to shoot out the barrel for anything bigger than coyotes. I am planning on using a Wyatt's mag box so I can load a bit longer. Right now I have bullets on the mind, and I am leaning toward the 168gr ABLR or 175gr ABLR because I prefer bullets that stay together more, though I will be trying the 162gr ELD-X in the 7mm-08; the 162gr ELD-X or the 175 ELD-X might be good candidates too. If I try to set up the rifle for, say, the 175ABLR, and then decide to try something fairly different like the 162 ELD-X, how much difference is that likely to make? I know a lot of people like the ELD-X bullets, but I haven't been finding as much information about the ABLR's (aside from complaints about inflated BCs, which can be corrected...); what are people's thoughts/experiences with these bullets? Are there others I should be considering?

 

[toddc]

I am planning on having 7mm-08 built once I get some money together. I have been quite pleased with it as is, but have wanted to build it since before I bought it. After initially toying with 7mm-08AI or 284 Win as potential chamberings, I got to talking to my brother, and am now seriously considering going all the way up to the 7SAUM. I figure that if the 7mm-08 would do fine for most any game here in Idaho, the SAUM should be able to do it farther out and better. This will be my primary hunting rifle until I manage to shoot out the barrel for anything bigger than coyotes. I am planning on using a Wyatt's mag box so I can load a bit longer. Right now I have bullets on the mind, and I am leaning toward the 168gr ABLR or 175gr ABLR because I prefer bullets that stay together more, though I will be trying the 162gr ELD-X in the 7mm-08; the 162gr ELD-X or the 175 ELD-X might be good candidates too. If I try to set up the rifle for, say, the 175ABLR, and then decide to try something fairly different like the 162 ELD-X, how much difference is that likely to make? I know a lot of people like the ELD-X bullets, but I haven't been finding as much information about the ABLR's (aside from complaints about inflated BCs, which can be corrected...); what are people's thoughts/experiences with these bullets? Are there others I should be considering?

I would get a 8 twist and consider ALL of them. The more variety you have to choose from the more likely you will find one YOU and the GUN will like. The 8 will shoot the 160 stuff fine and give you the option of 175-195 stuff.
You like stuff to stay together and that is why I am guessing the Berger isn't mentioned. A 195 at SAUM launch velocity will hold together, has a huge BC AND will do a lot of damage. A 195 gr 7mm of any construction will penetrate deep and if its lightly constructed will do a lot of damage doing it.

I just built a 7 SAUM on a Savage action and am fixing to work up loads. It's a 9 twist so I'm leaning towards the 180 but if it will shoot the 195 I will at least give it a run. Guys have issues with Bergers, SMKs and Amax because they run a shorter bullet like they would with a game designed bullet. Use the longest heaviest slug made and it will do the job. Bonded bullets use construction to penetrate, regular jacket stuff needs SD to work.

 

[catamountsierra]

I was already leaning heavily towards the 8-twist barrel. I know my brother loves the 230 OTM Bergers in his 300 WM, and I have no doubt that the Bergers are a good bullet, but I tend to lead toward bullets that stay together. I have been really pleased with the 140 AB in the 7mm-08, but the SAUM should be able to push the 175gr bullets as fast as I am currently shooting that 140. I will probably try the Bergers, probably the 180s or the new 175s, but I like the idea of the ABLR. A bonded bullet that opens even at long distances may be just the ticket, but I have seen some pretty mixed reviews. Honestly though, I've seen mixed reviews with just about any bullet...

 

[TheDerkster]

If you don't mind reloading, go with a 7mm Shreman Shortmag. Talk to Rich (elkaholic). I built my gun on that catridge and I get 2900 fps with a 195 eol. Easilly should get over 3000 with 180 hybrids.

Many people don't like the idea of forming brass, but a lot of us have gone to pushing the shoulder back just enough to where it will barely chamber, and then loading up full power loads so that they can be used to practice and fire form at the same time. It'll basically cost you the cost of a 7mm SAUM die that's been shortened and thats it.

If you haven't looked at the price of 7mm SAUM factory loads, they don't get much cheaper than 3.25$ a pop and your very restricted on choices so that may not really make a difference as far as availability.

 

[TheDerkster]

I would get a 8 twist and consider ALL of them. The more variety you have to choose from the more likely you will find one YOU and the GUN will like. The 8 will shoot the 160 stuff fine and give you the option of 175-195 stuff.
You like stuff to stay together and that is why I am guessing the Berger isn't mentioned. A 195 at SAUM launch velocity will hold together, has a huge BC AND will do a lot of damage. A 195 gr 7mm of any construction will penetrate deep and if its lightly constructed will do a lot of damage doing it.

I just built a 7 SAUM on a Savage action and am fixing to work up loads. It's a 9 twist so I'm leaning towards the 180 but if it will shoot the 195 I will at least give it a run. Guys have issues with Bergers, SMKs and Amax because they run a shorter bullet like they would with a game designed bullet. Use the longest heaviest slug made and it will do the job. Bonded bullets use construction to penetrate, regular jacket stuff needs SD to work.

I'll tell you now those 195s are pretty thin at the nose. They will leave nothing to be desired for wound channels and will almost take a head clean off a whitetail at 2900 fps...well kinda, it took half of it but only a picture would do it justice. I've never seen so much damage and people ask if I'm shooting a cannon everytime.

 

[Jud96]

I think you would be surprised knowing that the ABLR doesn't actually hold together that well. They tend to over expand at closer ranges and not expand reliably at longer ranges. This is one reason why they are not as popular as they could have been. I would strongly consider you looking into the new Hornady 180gr ELD Match, when it becomes available, and the heavy 180gr Bergers and Berger 195s. The new ELDs and Bergers dump a lot of energy and really open up. The Bergers tend to be a little more frangible and the ELD bullets seem to break apart but a good bit of the bullet stays together and mushrooms or continues onward. Both bullets are excellent for Long Range hunting though. Like others have said, get a 1:8 twist so you can stabilize both the 160-168s and the 175-195s.

The 7mm SAUM is an excellent cartridge, but the 7mm Sherman Short is an even more impressive and a better round in my opinion. The 7SS is more expensive to initially get setup for, but it is extremely efficient and I have heard nothing but praise for it. Dies, reamers, and brass is available for the 7mm SS and I don't think you can go wrong with it. It will be just as accurate or even better than the SAUM and do it with more velocity!

 

[catamountsierra]

I was kind of expecting the ABLR to not hold up at close range and act more like the Berger, but I was hoping they would reliably open up at longer ranges, though if I am honest the 160 AB would probably do me fine at this point... I have a bunch of 150gr ABLRs that I will start shooting in the 7mm-08, so maybe that will tell me if I will like them. In theory, the ABLR should be the best of both worlds, so to speak, but maybe that is more wishful thinking.
I don't know as much about the 7SS, which is why it wasn't on my list, but I have heard a lot of good things about them. I may have to do some more research. Either way, if I look at the reloading data from the Hodgdon website, I should be able to run close to the 7RM and still use my short action instead of buying myself a new rifle and then wanting to build that. This way I should be able to get the performance I was hoping for, and likely have a bit of money left to buy the kids their first hunting rifle.

 

[bigngreen]

A 195 at SAUM launch velocity will hold together, has a huge BC AND will do a lot of damage. A 195 gr 7mm of any construction will penetrate deep and if its lightly constructed will do a lot of damage doing it.

At SAUM velocities the 195 opens aggressively, it should be used with a little caution, it's awesome with some range, I'm very, very careful inside 1000 yards with them, I'm going to switch to the target version when they come.

 

[catamountsierra]

If you don't mind reloading, go with a 7mm Shreman Shortmag. Talk to Rich (elkaholic). I built my gun on that catridge and I get 2900 fps with a 195 eol. Easilly should get over 3000 with 180 hybrids.

Many people don't like the idea of forming brass, but a lot of us have gone to pushing the shoulder back just enough to where it will barely chamber, and then loading up full power loads so that they can be used to practice and fire form at the same time. It'll basically cost you the cost of a 7mm SAUM die that's been shortened and thats it.

If you haven't looked at the price of 7mm SAUM factory loads, they don't get much cheaper than 3.25$ a pop and your very restricted on choices so that may not really make a difference as far as availability.

I shot a bunch of cheap Fusion ammo when I first got the rifle because at the time (right after the school shooting in CT) that was the only way I could find brass; everything since has been handloads. I bought a bunch of 62gr HSM ammo when I built my AR, but that was to get a bunch of supposedly more consistent brass to load 75gr match bullets in. 40S&W, 22LR, and my 20ga shotguns are the only things I don't prefer to load for. I had been considering the 7mm08AI and then buying another rifle in 7RM, but I think this will do me better in the long run as I might have money left to pick up a 6.5CM or another 7mm-08 for the kids to use in a couple years for their first hunting rifle.

 

[catamountsierra]

OK, been reading up on the 7SS, and it looks very good to say the least. I know for the SAUM I can just order brass and dies fairly easily, but the SS would be my first wildcat. Seems like I need to do more research, but it is looking like a real solid contender.

 

[TheDerkster]

I was kind of expecting the ABLR to not hold up at close range and act more like the Berger, but I was hoping they would reliably open up at longer ranges, though if I am honest the 160 AB would probably do me fine at this point... I have a bunch of 150gr ABLRs that I will start shooting in the 7mm-08, so maybe that will tell me if I will like them. In theory, the ABLR should be the best of both worlds, so to speak, but maybe that is more wishful thinking.
I don't know as much about the 7SS, which is why it wasn't on my list, but I have heard a lot of good things about them. I may have to do some more research. Either way, if I look at the reloading data from the Hodgdon website, I should be able to run close to the 7RM and still use my short action instead of buying myself a new rifle and then wanting to build that. This way I should be able to get the performance I was hoping for, and likely have a bit of money left to buy the kids their first hunting rifle.

So basically the 7SS is a 7mm SAUM based cartridge that has 40° shoulders (I think that's the number) and has the neck pushed back slightly so that you can still magfeed the ultra long bullets. I can still mag feed 195 EOL is that tells you anything in a M10 savage.

The longer neck also should give more rounds because your keeping the flame longer whereas cases like the 7mm WSM have a short neck and the flame hits the throat (flame as in plasma, at least accoring to some people). So containment of the blast within the case should increase throat life.

I'm nor sure what you can expect with a 7mm SAUM, but you can expect some unreal velocities for the powder charge. For example, the 300 Sherman Shortmag was pushing 215 Bergers at 3000 fps by some guys on the forum but that's a little hot I think. That's also with only 65 or 66 gr of powder. Don't quote me on that though, I can't remember exact numbers

My gun shoots 195 eol with 59 grain of RL26 at around 2930 fps or so. That's a good load as well and I can't shoot as good as the gun can group. Itll hold half MOA easy out to at least 300 yards which is all I've had time to mess with. I'd say I could hit 3000 if I maxed the load out.

The dies are superb...they come from whidden gun works wit micrometer seating die. They aren't cheap, but worth it. And they will take care of any problems you have if you happen to have one somehow great people. Other things you will need is a case length trimmer and a neck trimmer. That's it.

 

[TheDerkster]

OK, been reading up on the 7SS, and it looks very good to say the least. I know for the SAUM I can just order brass and dies fairly easily, but the SS would be my first wildcat. Seems like I need to do more research, but it is looking like a real solid contender.

If you don't want to deal with making brass, Rich can set you up with brass that just needs loaded, fired, and trimmed for length after you fire. His price is comparable with 7mm SAUM Nosler brass. I think he uses norms which is what nosler uses as well and just stamps their head print on it and do more prep work to it.

 

[catamountsierra]

I think the 7SAUM looks like a mighty sweet round, and I was planning on running a Wyatt's mag box so I could load out a little longer and still mag feed. At the same time, the more you guys talk about the 7SS, the more it seems to fit my bill. One of the things I like about the 7-08 is that it doesn't eat huge quantities of powder. Getting magnum performance with more standard powder charges is a big plus. I might just have to get my first wildcat set up...

 

[TheDerkster]

I think the 7SAUM looks like a mighty sweet round, and I was planning on running a Wyatt's mag box so I could load out a little longer and still mag feed. At the same time, the more you guys talk about the 7SS, the more it seems to fit my bill. One of the things I like about the 7-08 is that it doesn't eat huge quantities of powder. Getting magnum performance with more standard powder charges is a big plus. I might just have to get my first wildcat set up...

That's the spirit!

Again, elkaholic is the one who came up with it. Rich Sherman is his name, hence sherman shortmag. It's really a super round, but you can't go wrong with the SS, SAUM, or 7mm-08. Just depends on what you want. The saum and SS wI'll cost about the same with performance advantage given to the SS. The 7mm-08 will be way cheaper with more facity ammo available, but performance compared to the mags is nothing