ELR Researcher
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Progression of ELR Community
- Thread starter THEIS
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Hello,
IMO a BMG "sized" case design will be the first to launch a .375 diameter projectile at 4k/fps and it will not have to be a single shot...there are some BMG "sized" weapon systems that will allow this to be done in a repeater.
The benefit of the repeater is not for the average functionality in competition setting but for the Governmental adaptation...Government "Entities" do not deal with single shot systems.
For "comp" systems..The RPA BMG action and/or the Barnard GP action can and will handle pretty much any pressures you can put into them from a wildcatted "50". The BMG brass will become a constant splitting problem before you run into any problem with those actions..especially since BMG brass is relatively thin and that is why a bmg "sized" case with proper brass will eventually be used in some of these 50 wildcats
THEIS
IMO a BMG "sized" case design will be the first to launch a .375 diameter projectile at 4k/fps and it will not have to be a single shot...there are some BMG "sized" weapon systems that will allow this to be done in a repeater.
The benefit of the repeater is not for the average functionality in competition setting but for the Governmental adaptation...Government "Entities" do not deal with single shot systems.
For "comp" systems..The RPA BMG action and/or the Barnard GP action can and will handle pretty much any pressures you can put into them from a wildcatted "50". The BMG brass will become a constant splitting problem before you run into any problem with those actions..especially since BMG brass is relatively thin and that is why a bmg "sized" case with proper brass will eventually be used in some of these 50 wildcats
THEIS
D
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THEIS,Hello,
IMO a BMG "sized" case design will be the first to launch a .375 diameter projectile at 4k/fps and it will not have to be a single shot...there are some BMG "sized" weapon systems that will allow this to be done in a repeater.
The benefit of the repeater is not for the average functionality in competition setting but for the Governmental adaptation...Government "Entities" do not deal with single shot systems.
For "comp" systems..The RPA BMG action and/or the Barnard GP action can and will handle pretty much any pressures you can put into them from a wildcatted "50". The BMG brass will become a constant splitting problem before you run into any problem with those actions..especially since BMG brass is relatively thin and that is why a bmg "sized" case with proper brass will eventually be used in some of these 50 wildcats
THEIS
I asked yuou this before. Why do you seem to have such a preference toward steering the discussion along military lines?
This i a long range hunting and shooting forum. Wouldn't "Snipers Hide"/"Scout" be more appropriate for Military/Tactical applications.
Hello,
Well I guess you did not see the entire paragraph in regards to "comp" systems...
And based off your deductions of this being a long range hunting and shooting forum...you should tell other members when they ask about 2 mile shooting competitions that this is a long range hunting and shooting forum, not a competition forum; right??
Len or Andy can ask me to leave his forum whenever he wants if HE does not want "all" sides of shooting to be discussed here and ONLY wants hunting discussed.
BUT to answer you question directly...
Not everyone has the luxury of sitting at their computer and not having websites filtered and outright blocked. So I chose to participate on a forum that is not blocked (so far) by any of the countries I go to. That way there is not lengthy spans of time I am not able to participate in a thread of interest. If I had same thread as this one on snipers hide then I could only access it while I was home in USA but this forum I can access from any country.
THEIS
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Easy tiger. The question was not intended to get such an agro answer.
It just seems you steer toward military future applications. I'm trying to understand your perspective.
I made no "deductions" I asked you out right. You got all defensive on me. I don't need aggravation here.
No one has asked you to leave unless you think you should so take a chill pill. Your contributions are good. Perhaps it's the different dialects because American English is not your fist language.
It just seems you steer toward military future applications. I'm trying to understand your perspective.
I made no "deductions" I asked you out right. You got all defensive on me. I don't need aggravation here.
No one has asked you to leave unless you think you should so take a chill pill. Your contributions are good. Perhaps it's the different dialects because American English is not your fist language.
alcesgigas
Well-Known Member
Recently there's been a couple threads focusing on "Two Mile Shoots." For a couple years now I've been nagged by the thought of building a 375/50 BMG. It's been around for a while; dies and reamers are available. As stated earlier we have the actions that probably can handle this cartridge at its maximum potential which may include a 400 grain bullet traveling 4000 feet per second accurately.
There's also been some quandary concerning ignition in the two biggest 375s. Not so the 375/50 BMG; its number 32 surely ignites the 220 grains of propellant every time. With a tungsten-tipped (military only?) brass, bronze, or copper VLD what an armor piercing round this may be!
Check this out: .375-50 BMG - AmmoGuide Interactive
There's also been some quandary concerning ignition in the two biggest 375s. Not so the 375/50 BMG; its number 32 surely ignites the 220 grains of propellant every time. With a tungsten-tipped (military only?) brass, bronze, or copper VLD what an armor piercing round this may be!
Check this out: .375-50 BMG - AmmoGuide Interactive
D
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I don't know if anyone can see it without a subscription. I have a subscription so I can.
The 375/50-BMG is surely potent. Unfortunately is shortens the BMG by .910. Giving up lots of case capacity. This may have been done to match case volume and case mouth area to powders available.
We may have powders now that will work with +200 grain charges pushing out of a .375" hole.
Hello,
The action(s) in terms of "handable" pressures are the easy part of this "ELR" equation, what LOTS of these actions lack IMO is barrel tenon lengths. I think we need to lengthen the barrel tenon on bmg actions in general..especially if running what will soon to be these high pressure producing wildcats utilizing the BMG boltface as base of the wildcat(s)
As stated...the issue with that "particular" wildcatted bmg is they reduced the length too much. That spec was done with a particular rifle in mind. The East Ridge Arms shellholder rifle. Shorten the cartridge and you shorten the "bolt pull length" in terms of removing the bolt with cartridge in the shellholder.
Some of the new and upcoming BMG "wildcats" will solve that problem and as I stated previously....I think this type of wildcat will be the first to get the 375 projectiles to the 4000fps mark. Specifically with the new extra dense alloy projectile designs that are reducing the projectile "footprint" but gaining weight and bc.
Another topic following this same conversation is the MV range lots of the commonly used solids are designed for. THAT has been a huge problem with getting the 375 projectiles to some of these desired MVs. Projectiles are designed to operate within a specific MV realm..pushing them too slow has negative stabilization affects and pushing them too fast has negative stabilization affects on them. Those issues are being worked on by companies as I type so now is the time to reach for more fps!!
THEIS
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Deleted member 46119
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Like!
THEIS, that is the best post in a long time.
Barrel tenon length, action diameter and how the barrel is supported.
I will need to do some measuring on my ALS 50 DTC. The biggest problem with it is it's almost a crew served single shot. Two 50 plus pound wheeled hard cases and another case for the ammo.
I want something that can go in a scabbard backpack with the spotter carrying the rounds.
All I want from the receiver is to contain the bolt thrust and provide feed/ejection ports.
THEIS, that is the best post in a long time.
Barrel tenon length, action diameter and how the barrel is supported.
I will need to do some measuring on my ALS 50 DTC. The biggest problem with it is it's almost a crew served single shot. Two 50 plus pound wheeled hard cases and another case for the ammo.
I want something that can go in a scabbard backpack with the spotter carrying the rounds.
All I want from the receiver is to contain the bolt thrust and provide feed/ejection ports.
alcesgigas
Well-Known Member
How about eliminating using the action as an anchor and depending on an attachment (the barrel) to establish accuracy when we might just anchor the barrel at the action tenon forward 3" to 8" and let the rest of the barrel float as the action floats? This has had varying success rates so far. I suspect a big part of this conundrum remains the machining to match the barrel. However, if the barrels were manufactured with no taper at all for say, ten inches, there be ample "pipe fitting space." My LRKM floats barrel and action with a clamped section anchoring it to the stock. There could even be a machined "groove" in that straight section, say .250 deep that would dovetail into the corresponding "tongue" in the barrel clamping apparatus. Such barrel could become standardized between manufacturers aiding accuracy and expediency particularity for the military.
D
Deleted member 46119
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It's called a barrel block mounting system. Used by ultra precision heavy gun bench rest shooters.
Yes that is what I was alluding too.
Hello,
Maybe the "Progression" of ELR needs to look more at the past instead of the future when it comes to "new technology". There is **** near NOTHING new in the firearm/ammunition industry.
For example in 2004 there was lots of design and testing on a new super high MV projectile. It was formally named the .65 caliber and launched a tubular projectile of 555.8gr at a MV of 5000fps with VERY VERY low friction in the barrel AND low air friction during flight. Basically the rejuvenation of the 1970 experiment for tubular 7.62 ammunition
THEIS
Maybe the "Progression" of ELR needs to look more at the past instead of the future when it comes to "new technology". There is **** near NOTHING new in the firearm/ammunition industry.
For example in 2004 there was lots of design and testing on a new super high MV projectile. It was formally named the .65 caliber and launched a tubular projectile of 555.8gr at a MV of 5000fps with VERY VERY low friction in the barrel AND low air friction during flight. Basically the rejuvenation of the 1970 experiment for tubular 7.62 ammunition
THEIS
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Hello,
In regards to barrel tenon. IMO the "traditional" style bolt action in the BMG sized family have too short of barrel tenon. I think the "lack" of barrel tenon is what causes and/or will cause a lot of the harmonic issues of the rifles with the high pressure capable cartridges.
I utilize a switch barrel rifle with 4 inch barrel tenon as well as the "receiver" is the "stock" at the same time. The buttstock attaches to receiver and foreand attaches to receiver.
THEIS
In regards to barrel tenon. IMO the "traditional" style bolt action in the BMG sized family have too short of barrel tenon. I think the "lack" of barrel tenon is what causes and/or will cause a lot of the harmonic issues of the rifles with the high pressure capable cartridges.
I utilize a switch barrel rifle with 4 inch barrel tenon as well as the "receiver" is the "stock" at the same time. The buttstock attaches to receiver and foreand attaches to receiver.
THEIS
Attachments
D
Deleted member 46119
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I can see how tubular projectiles failed from a military standpoint.Hello,
Maybe the "Progression" of ELR needs to look more at the past instead of the future when it comes to "new technology". There is **** near NOTHING new in the firearm/ammunition industry.
For example in 2004 there was lots of design and testing on a new super high MV projectile. It was formally named the .65 caliber and launched a tubular projectile of 555.8gr at a MV of 5000fps with VERY VERY low friction in the barrel AND low air friction during flight. Basically the rejuvenation of the 1970 experiment for tubular 7.62 ammunition
THEIS
From an ELR standpoint, while slippery, tubular projectiles seem "difficult" from a variety of points. Still very interesting. What is old is new again.
Do you have any access to the data or report and conclusions?
